Berkeley Haters

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crackberry
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Re: Berkeley Haters

Postby crackberry » Mon Feb 22, 2010 3:13 pm

bilbobaggins wrote:the [strike]beautiful[/strike] ugly and dangerous Bay Bridge

Fixed.

ranovr32
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Re: Berkeley Haters

Postby ranovr32 » Mon Feb 22, 2010 3:42 pm

I got dinged from Berkeley so I guess this is a little biased:

I would of loved to spend 3 years in a basically no-grade law school
Its a beautiful part of the country, and in my opininion California trumps NY (I grew up in NY and NJ)
Places well in Cali law firms

Con's
Ridiculously expensive tuition
Ridiculous COL
Ridiculous people (i hate hipsters and hippies)
Job prospects are not exactly like University of Chicago which it is tied with (I have no idea why)
California is literally coming apart at the seams
California is taxing its residents and businesses into annihilation
Literally no lay prestige outside of California and Academia
It is a Public School

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Great Satchmo
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Re: Berkeley Haters

Postby Great Satchmo » Mon Feb 22, 2010 4:47 pm

ranovr32 wrote:I got dinged from Berkeley so I guess this is a little biased:

I would of loved to spend 3 years in a basically no-grade law school
Its a beautiful part of the country, and in my opininion California trumps NY (I grew up in NY and NJ)
Places well in Cali law firms

Con's
Ridiculously expensive tuition
Ridiculous COL
Ridiculous people (i hate hipsters and hippies)
Job prospects are not exactly like University of Chicago which it is tied with (I have no idea why)
California is literally coming apart at the seams
California is taxing its residents and businesses into annihilation
Literally no lay prestige outside of California and Academia
It is a Public School


I didn't go to UCB, nor do I have the scores to come close to it, but what are you talking about?

Ridiculous people? - I haven't been there, but having the admissions requirements they do, do you really expect a bunch of hippies in the school? Otherwise, Berkeley is a liberal city, but a lot of the city is comprised of "wealthy liberals", which means they support many causes, but in the end they want their money and power.

No lay prestige? Why does that matter? And secondly, it's among the top public universities in the country...how is that not lay prestige?

How is being a public school a con? Seems like you have a bit too much need to look down your nose at people.

ranovr32
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Re: Berkeley Haters

Postby ranovr32 » Mon Feb 22, 2010 5:17 pm

When I said crazy people I was in no way referring to the Berkeley staff who I think are incredible. I was speaking to the overwhelmingly liberal culture and general lack concentration on important social issues (other then probably gay marriage which I don't mind). The state is falling apart and one of the most important things in NoCal is sustainable growing. Cool but when the entire economy is crumbling that doesn't really resonate with me. It is just a very Hippyish place.
When I said public schools, I really meant it in a non-derisive way. For example the ridiculous budget cuts that the state of California is imposing on many of the inter-state departments including education effect the institution profoundly. You do not have to deal with this at private school. In general public schools are victim to many ills that won't beleaguer their private school siblings. And if i have to pay a tuition that exceeds 50k a year for a degree, you better effing believe I want everyone to know exactly what it entailed. Besides I highly doubt in the prestige whoring TLS forums I am the only one concerned with lay prestige when choosing a school.

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Great Satchmo
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Re: Berkeley Haters

Postby Great Satchmo » Mon Feb 22, 2010 5:39 pm

ranovr32 wrote:When I said crazy people I was in no way referring to the Berkeley staff who I think are incredible. I was speaking to the overwhelmingly liberal culture and general lack concentration on important social issues (other then probably gay marriage which I don't mind). The state is falling apart and one of the most important things in NoCal is sustainable growing. Cool but when the entire economy is crumbling that doesn't really resonate with me. It is just a very Hippyish place.
When I said public schools, I really meant it in a non-derisive way. For example the ridiculous budget cuts that the state of California is imposing on many of the inter-state departments including education effect the institution profoundly. You do not have to deal with this at private school. In general public schools are victim to many ills that won't beleaguer their private school siblings. And if i have to pay a tuition that exceeds 50k a year for a degree, you better effing believe I want everyone to know exactly what it entailed. Besides I highly doubt in the prestige whoring TLS forums I am the only one concerned with lay prestige when choosing a school.


Of course it's a liberal culture, but having walked around a bit in Berkeley and knowing a friend or two from there, you realize there is a strong current of wealth and elitism that runs through the town. Yes, there are the poor, pot-smoking hippies, but there are also a lot of powerful, affluent "liberals". I think the stereotype is just that.

Sustainability in industry is a cultural thing in the bay area, but it is not restrictive in that manner. The bay area has a culture for start-ups for forward thinking and taking risks, there is a lot of venture capitalism. Sustainability is a big issue that will be coming to a head in the next decade and the companies, appropriately, are looking toward it. It is not crippling.

I just looked around at some T-14 private schools and they have tuition in that same range. Where is the outrage for them? Ya, it's a ridiculous cost, but at least at a top school you may have the opportunity to pay it back - or if cost is an issue, go to a lower ranked school on scholarship. I don't get the penny-pinching attitude. If $40-$45k a year isn't too much, why is $48-$50k for a top education that, if you choose and perform somewhat well, can get you that $160k job? It's such an arbitrary cut-off especially in the face of the magnitude of debt.


I'm not singling you out for being focused on prestige, but to say that UCB doesn't have prestige? I think you're confusing that with "a solely wealthy, privileged student body". UCB is a top school. Heck, undergrad rankings it's sitting just above Notre Dame. How this isn't prestige, I don't know.

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daesonesb
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Re: Berkeley Haters

Postby daesonesb » Mon Feb 22, 2010 6:00 pm

I was a berkeley lover, now i'm neutral... cuz I gotted dinged there. :roll:

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bilbobaggins
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Re: Berkeley Haters

Postby bilbobaggins » Mon Feb 22, 2010 7:02 pm

ranovr32 wrote:I got dinged from Berkeley so I guess this is a little biased:

I would of loved to spend 3 years in a basically no-grade law school
Its a beautiful part of the country, and in my opininion California trumps NY (I grew up in NY and NJ)
Places well in Cali law firms

Con's
Ridiculously expensive tuition
Ridiculous COL
Ridiculous people (i hate hipsters and hippies)
Job prospects are not exactly like University of Chicago which it is tied with (I have no idea why)
California is literally coming apart at the seams
California is taxing its residents and businesses into annihilation
Literally no lay prestige outside of California and Academia
It is a Public School


1. Tuition is/will keep pace with other T10s. It used to be cheaper, now it'll be similar.
2. COL is the same or cheaper than any T10 in a major metro area.
3. You have no idea what you're talking about, but you do sound delightfully closed minded.
4. An arbitrary comparison to Chicago is somehow a con?
5. False.
6. Also false.
7. Wow, you're on a roll. As if lay prestige mattered (I guess it does to dbags), Boalt's prestige in the legal and business professions is very high (which is all that matters).
8. And this is somehow a bad thing?

Really, there's not much point trolling a school you didn't get into.

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Dignan
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Re: Berkeley Haters

Postby Dignan » Mon Feb 22, 2010 8:06 pm

ranovr32 wrote:Con's:


"Ridiculously expensive tuition"
The tuition was once the lowest of the top schools; it has now risen to the market rate. If Boalt's tuition is ridiculously expensive, then so is the tuition of all of the top law schools.

"Ridiculous COL"
COL is comparable to the other markets in the T10. Berkeley is more expensive than New Haven and Ann Arbor, and less expensive than NYC.

"Ridiculous people (i hate hipsters and hippies)"
There aren't any hippies in the law school. I also don't think of Berkeley as being a haven for hipsters; it's not Greenwich Village.

"Job prospects are not exactly like University of Chicago which it is tied with (I have no idea why)"
True, job prospects, particularly for big law, are better for U of C grads. If big law is your focus, and if you've been accepted by HYSCCN, you should probably attend one of those schools (though Berkeley holds its own against the lower half of the T14 in big law).

"California is literally coming apart at the seams"
Literally? I didn't know that California had literal seams. Did an earthquake hit today?

"California is taxing its residents and businesses into annihilation"
Tell me: Are they going to be literally annihilated?

"Literally no lay prestige outside of California and Academia"
Berkeley may not "literally" have any prestige, but it has a fair amount of figurative lay presitge. Berkeley has more lay prestige, both domestically and internationally, than a lot of the top law schools, including the one you mentioned above (University of Chicago).

"It is a Public School"
Actually, with its skyrocketing tuition, I don't consider it a public school anymore. The UC Regents have basically turned Boalt into a private school. I think this is cause for regret.

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Great Satchmo
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Re: Berkeley Haters

Postby Great Satchmo » Mon Feb 22, 2010 8:06 pm

bilbobaggins wrote:
ranovr32 wrote:I got dinged from Berkeley so I guess this is a little biased:

I would of loved to spend 3 years in a basically no-grade law school
Its a beautiful part of the country, and in my opininion California trumps NY (I grew up in NY and NJ)
Places well in Cali law firms

Con's
Ridiculously expensive tuition
Ridiculous COL
Ridiculous people (i hate hipsters and hippies)
Job prospects are not exactly like University of Chicago which it is tied with (I have no idea why)
California is literally coming apart at the seams
California is taxing its residents and businesses into annihilation
Literally no lay prestige outside of California and Academia
It is a Public School


1. Tuition is/will keep pace with other T10s. It used to be cheaper, now it'll be similar.
2. COL is the same or cheaper than any T10 in a major metro area.
3. You have no idea what you're talking about, but you do sound delightfully closed minded.
4. An arbitrary comparison to Chicago is somehow a con?
5. False.
6. Also false.
7. Wow, you're on a roll. As if lay prestige mattered (I guess it does to dbags), Boalt's prestige in the legal and business professions is very high (which is all that matters).
8. And this is somehow a bad thing?

Really, there's not much point trolling a school you didn't get into.


Sure there is: our entertainment.

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los blancos
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Re: Berkeley Haters

Postby los blancos » Mon Feb 22, 2010 8:09 pm

Berk <3

ranovr32
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Re: Berkeley Haters

Postby ranovr32 » Mon Feb 22, 2010 8:52 pm

bilbobaggins wrote:
ranovr32 wrote:I got dinged from Berkeley so I guess this is a little biased:

I would of loved to spend 3 years in a basically no-grade law school
Its a beautiful part of the country, and in my opininion California trumps NY (I grew up in NY and NJ)
Places well in Cali law firms

Con's
Ridiculously expensive tuition
Ridiculous COL
Ridiculous people (i hate hipsters and hippies)
Job prospects are not exactly like University of Chicago which it is tied with (I have no idea why)
California is literally coming apart at the seams
California is taxing its residents and businesses into annihilation
Literally no lay prestige outside of California and Academia
It is a Public School


1. Tuition is/will keep pace with other T10s. It used to be cheaper, now it'll be similar.
2. COL is the same or cheaper than any T10 in a major metro area.
3. You have no idea what you're talking about, but you do sound delightfully closed minded.
4. An arbitrary comparison to Chicago is somehow a con?
5. False.
6. Also false.
7. Wow, you're on a roll. As if lay prestige mattered (I guess it does to dbags), Boalt's prestige in the legal and business professions is very high (which is all that matters).
8. And this is somehow a bad thing?

Really, there's not much point trolling a school you didn't get into.


I'm not trolling its pretty objective, go to Above the Law look at all of their articles on Berk. And their tution is NOT keeping pace with the rest of the T10, for the class of 2013 out of state tution is well in excess of 50k and in state is well above 43. If Stanford doesn't charge 48k a year for tuition I don't think Berkeley has the right too. If you go on NALP or their website it doesn't place as well as Columbia, Chicago and NYU (their closest peers) in anything besides teaching. Historically Chicago does much better for the record. I didn't say Berkeley was a shit school but its overhyped. Lay prestige does matter, and lay prestige isn't an issue with V100 law firms who stay current on these things, but the average guy doesn't. I know you guys love the school, but hey this is a "Berkeley Haters" thread. I'm officially a hater, I'll be at Chicago in the fall and I can't wait for the Fall OCI threads when I'm laughing my ass off.

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los blancos
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Re: Berkeley Haters

Postby los blancos » Mon Feb 22, 2010 8:54 pm

ranovr32 wrote:If Stanford doesn't charge 48k a year for tuition I don't think Berkeley has the right too.


lol @ schools having/not having the 'right' to charge certain tuition

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worldtraveler
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Re: Berkeley Haters

Postby worldtraveler » Mon Feb 22, 2010 8:54 pm

ranovr32 wrote:
bilbobaggins wrote:
ranovr32 wrote:I got dinged from Berkeley so I guess this is a little biased:

I would of loved to spend 3 years in a basically no-grade law school
Its a beautiful part of the country, and in my opininion California trumps NY (I grew up in NY and NJ)
Places well in Cali law firms

Con's
Ridiculously expensive tuition
Ridiculous COL
Ridiculous people (i hate hipsters and hippies)
Job prospects are not exactly like University of Chicago which it is tied with (I have no idea why)
California is literally coming apart at the seams
California is taxing its residents and businesses into annihilation
Literally no lay prestige outside of California and Academia
It is a Public School


1. Tuition is/will keep pace with other T10s. It used to be cheaper, now it'll be similar.
2. COL is the same or cheaper than any T10 in a major metro area.
3. You have no idea what you're talking about, but you do sound delightfully closed minded.
4. An arbitrary comparison to Chicago is somehow a con?
5. False.
6. Also false.
7. Wow, you're on a roll. As if lay prestige mattered (I guess it does to dbags), Boalt's prestige in the legal and business professions is very high (which is all that matters).
8. And this is somehow a bad thing?

Really, there's not much point trolling a school you didn't get into.


I'm not trolling its pretty objective, go to Above the Law look at all of their articles on Berk. And their tution is NOT keeping pace with the rest of the T10, for the class of 2013 out of state tution is well in excess of 50k and in state is well above 43. If Stanford doesn't charge 48k a year for tuition I don't think Berkeley has the right too. If you go on NALP or their website it doesn't place as well as Columbia, Chicago and NYU (their closest peers) in anything besides teaching. Historically Chicago does much better for the record. I didn't say Berkeley was a shit school but its overhyped. Lay prestige does matter, and lay prestige isn't an issue with V100 law firms who stay current on these things, but the average guy doesn't. I know you guys love the school, but hey this is a "Berkeley Haters" thread. I'm officially a hater, I'll be at Chicago in the fall and I can't wait for the Fall OCI threads when I'm laughing my ass off.


You are worried about lay prestige and you picked...Chicago?

If you're going to cite dumb reasons for picking a school, at least follow them.

ranovr32
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Re: Berkeley Haters

Postby ranovr32 » Tue Feb 23, 2010 3:10 am

Why are all you bleeding heart Berkeley lovers on this site lmao

I don't care if Berkeley ONCE had the lowest tuition, and I know all of their pr flyers said that they are keeping rates competitive with other t14 schools, but I don't see any other law school charging over 50k for tuition. When someone shows me tuition at one of the other t14 schools above 50k then I'll recant....

Durham, New haven, Ann Arbour, Cambridge, and Chicago have lower col

California is one of the top ten most taxed states in the US for income, that doesn't even take into account real estate or any other taxes

California handed out IOU's to several thousand state employee's instead of actually paying them this last year, also defaulted on millions of dollars worth of state issued bonds (so yeah I think thats considered a state in decline)

Charging ridiculous tuition doesn't defacto qualify a school as "private" that is laughable

Yeah Berkeley might have more lay prestige then Chicago in California, not to an average person outside of California, and it certainly does not in the academic world

I think Berkeley is a beautiful town as well as the state it happens to be in. Aside from that I couldn't risk 52k a year on tuition alone if given the opportunity, when I have much more intelligent options elsewhere.

ranovr32
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Re: Berkeley Haters

Postby ranovr32 » Tue Feb 23, 2010 3:22 am

Here I've compiled a few special trinkets for all you Kool Aid drinkers......

--LinkRemoved--

--LinkRemoved--

http://www.universityofcalifornia.edu/r ... v09/f2.pdf

--LinkRemoved--

The last one is especially lame lol

Tofu
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Re: Berkeley Haters

Postby Tofu » Tue Feb 23, 2010 3:33 am

ranovr32 wrote:Yeah Berkeley might have more lay prestige then Chicago in California, not to an average person outside of California, and it certainly does not in the academic world


err...

berkeley > chicago in terms of lay prestige pretty much everywhere (uchicago has lay prestige?)

berkeley's academic reputation is at least as good as chicago's, too, imo

though i'll just let crackberry comment

WellNow
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Re: Berkeley Haters

Postby WellNow » Tue Feb 23, 2010 3:38 am

ranovr32 wrote:Why are all you bleeding heart Berkeley lovers on this site lmao

I don't care if Berkeley ONCE had the lowest tuition, and I know all of their pr flyers said that they are keeping rates competitive with other t14 schools, but I don't see any other law school charging over 50k for tuition. When someone shows me tuition at one of the other t14 schools above 50k then I'll recant....

Durham, New haven, Ann Arbour, Cambridge, and Chicago have lower col

California is one of the top ten most taxed states in the US for income, that doesn't even take into account real estate or any other taxes

California handed out IOU's to several thousand state employee's instead of actually paying them this last year, also defaulted on millions of dollars worth of state issued bonds (so yeah I think thats considered a state in decline)

Charging ridiculous tuition doesn't defacto qualify a school as "private" that is laughable

Yeah Berkeley might have more lay prestige then Chicago in California, not to an average person outside of California, and it certainly does not in the academic world

I think Berkeley is a beautiful town as well as the state it happens to be in. Aside from that I couldn't risk 52k a year on tuition alone if given the opportunity, when I have much more intelligent options elsewhere.



I hate to fuel this idiocy any further... but to the best of my knowledge Berkeley is the only school to release tuition rates for 2010-11, let alone 2013. I would be very, very surprised if Berkeley was still more expensive than Chicago or stanford or whoever else when these other schools release their tuition rates in the late spring. One of the benefits/drawbacks of being a public school in California is that the minutes at the regents meetings are public knowledge.

DanInALionsDen
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Re: Berkeley Haters

Postby DanInALionsDen » Tue Feb 23, 2010 3:40 am

I hate Berkeley cause they rejected me.

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ConMan345
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Re: Berkeley Haters

Postby ConMan345 » Tue Feb 23, 2010 3:42 am

I've said this before in another thread, but even if Berkeley's price is just as much as peer schools, the fact that they give much less in grants could (and mot likely will) make the cost much more in comparison.
Last edited by ConMan345 on Tue Feb 23, 2010 4:07 am, edited 1 time in total.

09042014
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Re: Berkeley Haters

Postby 09042014 » Tue Feb 23, 2010 3:45 am

ConMan345 wrote:I've said this before in another thread, but even if Berkeley's price is just as much as peer schools, the fact that they give much less in grants would make the cost much more in comparison.


Why should I care if NU gives some well rounded applicant money, and charges me tuition for it? If anything that pisses me off.

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excelsiorcaelo
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Re: Berkeley Haters

Postby excelsiorcaelo » Tue Feb 23, 2010 3:48 am

Sidebar:

HLS has or is part of a program (University Without Walls) where you can spend your 3L year at Berkeley. Not only do you still get the Harvard degree, but people actually put it on their resumes. The reverse is also true--there's a 3L living in my hall who is here on an exchange year from Boalt.

I think that's pretty cool.

Okay, the hating may resume. :)

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worldtraveler
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Re: Berkeley Haters

Postby worldtraveler » Tue Feb 23, 2010 3:53 am

ConMan345 wrote:I've said this before in another thread, but even if Berkeley's price is just as much as peer schools, the fact that they give much less in grants would make the cost much more in comparison.


Giving less in grants does not mean that YOU personally will get less grants. I can think of more than a few people who picked Berkeley because it gave them the most generous need based aid package, myself included. You can't compare costs of a school until you get in and actually see what is offered.

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ConMan345
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Re: Berkeley Haters

Postby ConMan345 » Tue Feb 23, 2010 4:01 am

worldtraveler wrote:
ConMan345 wrote:I've said this before in another thread, but even if Berkeley's price is just as much as peer schools, the fact that they give much less in grants would make the cost much more in comparison.


Giving less in grants does not mean that YOU personally will get less grants. I can think of more than a few people who picked Berkeley because it gave them the most generous need based aid package, myself included. You can't compare costs of a school until you get in and actually see what is offered.


Oh I agree. General =/= particular and, certainly, median grants =/= everyone's grant. I'm only using it in the general sense--there will always be outliers.

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crackberry
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Re: Berkeley Haters

Postby crackberry » Tue Feb 23, 2010 5:27 am

To ranovr32:

You are seriously misguided. Berkeley has so much more lay prestige AND academic prestige than Chicago it's not even funny. The only areas in which Chicago can even touch Berkeley are law and business/economics. Berkeley is EASILY one of the three best overall universities in the United States (with Harvard and Stanford). Chicago isn't even in the top 10.

Hope this helps.

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los blancos
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Re: Berkeley Haters

Postby los blancos » Tue Feb 23, 2010 5:34 am

Berk <3




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