I agree its a dumb argument either way and that arguments reduced to rankings, especially just one, aren't very good. The argument was being made dumb one way, so I am really just making it the other to balance it out, like the scales of justice. Crackberry is pretty strong in his/her opinions, and I respect that. I do think other opinions can be valid, and a lot of it comes down to what you value and individual preferences. I don't necessarily think that Cal Tech or MIT are better than Stanford or Berkeley, either, but I do think valid arguments can be made as to why they are better, at least for what they attempt to do.bilbobaggins wrote:A few things:
UCSF and Berkeley have cross-over curriculum and are very closely linked when it comes to the Med School. Berkeley has a clinical program that overlaps with the UCSF med school. I knows people in these programs, so any BS about what I've just said will be firmly rejected.
Rankings are generally stupid. Making a big deal about them is also stupid. But, if you're going to engage in it, be ready for some facts that firmly support UCB over Caltech or Chicago. There are some worldwide rankings that come out with UCB on top:
http://www.economist.com/displaystory.c ... id=4339960
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/HEEACT_-_P ... 8Top_50.29
There are others that come out with Caltech of Chicago on top.
It's really a dumb argument either way and it seems to be coming from someone who is insecure about his or her not getting into Boalt and perhaps going to Caltech as an UG. You also seem insecure about being a science major.
Berkeley Haters Forum
- The Brainalist
- Posts: 315
- Joined: Wed Oct 14, 2009 1:12 pm
Re: Berkeley Haters
- Kronk
- Posts: 32987
- Joined: Sat Dec 27, 2008 9:18 pm
Re: Berkeley Haters
If you want to be an economist, go to Chicago. If you want to be a engineer, go to Caltech. For anything else, go to Berkeley.
/discussion
/discussion
- BioEBear2010
- Posts: 745
- Joined: Wed Nov 19, 2008 7:05 pm
Re: Berkeley Haters
False. Caltech makes PhDs, not engineers. MIT/Stanford/Berkeley/UIUC (for you, DesertFox) make engineersKronk wrote:If you want to be an economist, go to Chicago. If you want to be a engineer, go to Caltech. For anything else, go to Berkeley.
/discussion
- Kronk
- Posts: 32987
- Joined: Sat Dec 27, 2008 9:18 pm
Re: Berkeley Haters
That's fair. I was trying to compromise and was referring to undergrad, but that's fair.BioEBear2010 wrote:False. Caltech makes PhDs, not engineers. MIT/Stanford/Berkeley/UIUC (for you, DesertFox) make engineersKronk wrote:If you want to be an economist, go to Chicago. If you want to be a engineer, go to Caltech. For anything else, go to Berkeley.
/discussion
- BioEBear2010
- Posts: 745
- Joined: Wed Nov 19, 2008 7:05 pm
Re: Berkeley Haters
I'm referring to undergrad, too. I forget the #s, but a HUGE amount of Caltech students end up chasing PhDs. MIT/Stanford/Berkeley students tend to either work, get Master's degrees, or enter into business (or occasionally law, like myself).Kronk wrote:That's fair. I was trying to compromise and was referring to undergrad, but that's fair.BioEBear2010 wrote:False. Caltech makes PhDs, not engineers. MIT/Stanford/Berkeley/UIUC (for you, DesertFox) make engineersKronk wrote:If you want to be an economist, go to Chicago. If you want to be a engineer, go to Caltech. For anything else, go to Berkeley.
/discussion
Want to continue reading?
Register now to search topics and post comments!
Absolutely FREE!
Already a member? Login
- im_blue
- Posts: 3272
- Joined: Sun Apr 12, 2009 3:53 am
Re: Berkeley Haters
Here you go:Desert Fox wrote:UCB shouldn't be the number three engineering school.Kronk wrote:Best engineering schools from USNWR:
http://grad-schools.usnews.rankingsandr ... s/rankings
1. MIT
2. Stanford
3. Berkeley
Yes this is rampant UIUC trolling.
UG EE rankings (the most prestigious engineering)
1. MIT
2. Stanford / UIUC
4. Berkeley
- im_blue
- Posts: 3272
- Joined: Sun Apr 12, 2009 3:53 am
Re: Berkeley Haters
It's about 60-70% of Caltech UGs getting PhDs.BioEBear2010 wrote:I'm referring to undergrad, too. I forget the #s, but a HUGE amount of Caltech students end up chasing PhDs. MIT/Stanford/Berkeley students tend to either work, get Master's degrees, or enter into business (or occasionally law, like myself).Kronk wrote:That's fair. I was trying to compromise and was referring to undergrad, but that's fair.BioEBear2010 wrote:False. Caltech makes PhDs, not engineers. MIT/Stanford/Berkeley/UIUC (for you, DesertFox) make engineersKronk wrote:If you want to be an economist, go to Chicago. If you want to be a engineer, go to Caltech. For anything else, go to Berkeley.
/discussion
-
- Posts: 18203
- Joined: Wed Oct 14, 2009 10:47 pm
Re: Berkeley Haters
I wouldn't pay for Caltech engineering.Kronk wrote:If you want to be an economist, go to Chicago. If you want to be a engineer, go to Caltech. For anything else, go to Berkeley.
/discussion
-
- Posts: 18203
- Joined: Wed Oct 14, 2009 10:47 pm
Re: Berkeley Haters
How is that even possible? Do they just hand out A's there or something?im_blue wrote:It's about 60-70% of Caltech UGs getting PhDs.BioEBear2010 wrote:I'm referring to undergrad, too. I forget the #s, but a HUGE amount of Caltech students end up chasing PhDs. MIT/Stanford/Berkeley students tend to either work, get Master's degrees, or enter into business (or occasionally law, like myself).Kronk wrote:That's fair. I was trying to compromise and was referring to undergrad, but that's fair.BioEBear2010 wrote: False. Caltech makes PhDs, not engineers. MIT/Stanford/Berkeley/UIUC (for you, DesertFox) make engineers
- im_blue
- Posts: 3272
- Joined: Sun Apr 12, 2009 3:53 am
Re: Berkeley Haters
Median GPA of 3.5 according to an EE grad I know. Almost everyone starts doing research sophomore year, so 2 years of experience by senior year is huge. Also, each major has < 20 students so they can spread out among top PhD programs.Desert Fox wrote:How is that even possible? Do they just hand out A's there or something?im_blue wrote:It's about 60-70% of Caltech UGs getting PhDs.
-
- Posts: 63
- Joined: Fri Sep 18, 2009 4:23 am
Re: Berkeley Haters
Well, some Berkeley grads themselves probably hate Berkeley as well due to the "Berkeley goggles" they have to wear for four years. I know I'm one of them, although everything else about Cal was awesome.Kronk wrote:Just stop . Everyone knows that people who hate Berkeley are either A.) Stanford / UCLA / USC students or B.) in denial.Desert Fox wrote:UCB shouldn't be the number three engineering school.Kronk wrote:Best engineering schools from USNWR:
http://grad-schools.usnews.rankingsandr ... s/rankings
1. MIT
2. Stanford
3. Berkeley
Yes this is rampant UIUC trolling.
-
- Posts: 241
- Joined: Sat Dec 05, 2009 5:31 pm
Re: Berkeley Haters
EXACTLYkittenmittons wrote:What's the point of this thread again? Berkeley UG and California kids reassuring themselves that their liberal arts degree from a public school is prestigious?
- bilbobaggins
- Posts: 686
- Joined: Sat Oct 25, 2008 3:41 pm
Re: Berkeley Haters
Actually, it's the opposite. Those who are insecure about their own schools/degrees/law schools admitted to have crawled out of the woodwork to post hilarious stuff about Berk.ranovr32 wrote:EXACTLYkittenmittons wrote:What's the point of this thread again? Berkeley UG and California kids reassuring themselves that their liberal arts degree from a public school is prestigious?
Also - the whole liberal arts degree bashing is pretty cliche at this point. It must hurt every time a philosophy major gets admitted to law school.
Register now!
Resources to assist law school applicants, students & graduates.
It's still FREE!
Already a member? Login
-
- Posts: 241
- Joined: Sat Dec 05, 2009 5:31 pm
Re: Berkeley Haters
Well considering I had to do algorithms and black scholes option pricing model for a few years did turn me a little sour, in your defense...bilbobaggins wrote:Actually, it's the opposite. Those who are insecure about their own schools/degrees/law schools admitted to have crawled out of the woodwork to post hilarious stuff about Berk.ranovr32 wrote:EXACTLYkittenmittons wrote:What's the point of this thread again? Berkeley UG and California kids reassuring themselves that their liberal arts degree from a public school is prestigious?
Also - the whole liberal arts degree bashing is pretty cliche at this point. It must hurt every time a philosophy major gets admitted to law school.
But to compare a humanities major to a hard science or math major, even accounting and finance to a lesser degree, does piss everyone off a little. 9/10 people at my UG have about 3.5's with a large proportion over that, I mean how can you not when a large percent of your grade is determined by writing well ON HOW YOU FEEL.
For the record I don't think Berkeley is a shit school, I think it is an awesome school. I just think it is a little more then over rated when it comes to its JD program. The rest of this stuff was killing time in-between studying multi-national finance lol
-
- Posts: 51
- Joined: Wed Apr 01, 2009 7:48 pm
Re: Berkeley Haters
I don't really believe that the Berkeley haters on tls are UCLA/USC/Stanford. I think they are Chicago and Ivy League, that are having difficulty with the fact that their private schools can't compete with a public school. That and the ever present East Coast/West Coast conflict.
- crackberry
- Posts: 3252
- Joined: Thu Sep 17, 2009 3:23 pm
Re: Berkeley Haters
For the record, I am a Stanford UG and likely SLS student and I have to be one of Berkeley's biggest defenders on TLS.
- los blancos
- Posts: 8397
- Joined: Mon Apr 21, 2008 4:18 pm
Re: Berkeley Haters
I'm a future Berk reject am I'm one of its biggest defenders too.crackberry wrote:For the record, I am a Stanford UG and likely SLS student and I have to be one of Berkeley's biggest defenders on TLS.
Get unlimited access to all forums and topics
Register now!
I'm pretty sure I told you it's FREE...
Already a member? Login
-
- Posts: 18203
- Joined: Wed Oct 14, 2009 10:47 pm
Re: Berkeley Haters
That is cheating.im_blue wrote:Median GPA of 3.5 according to an EE grad I know. Almost everyone starts doing research sophomore year, so 2 years of experience by senior year is huge. Also, each major has < 20 students so they can spread out among top PhD programs.Desert Fox wrote:How is that even possible? Do they just hand out A's there or something?im_blue wrote:It's about 60-70% of Caltech UGs getting PhDs.
-
- Posts: 551
- Joined: Sun Jan 31, 2010 6:45 pm
Re: Berkeley Haters
Oh come on, First of all, my undergrad apparently has the #2 business program in the country, and the accounting/finance majors certainly don't do any more work that I do. And it's pretty disingenuous to reduce every liberal arts major to "writing about how you feel." I've never gotten to do that.ranovr32 wrote: Well considering I had to do algorithms and black scholes option pricing model for a few years did turn me a little sour, in your defense...
But to compare a humanities major to a hard science or math major, even accounting and finance to a lesser degree, does piss everyone off a little. 9/10 people at my UG have about 3.5's with a large proportion over that, I mean how can you not when a large percent of your grade is determined by writing well ON HOW YOU FEEL.
But yes, hard science/engineers/math majors probably have more to do, and in many ways it's probably more difficult. But why would any of those people go to law school anyway? I don't think an engineering major would set me up for law school as well as my major has in any way.
Edit: Apparently I have been deceived by someone at some point. I can't find any rankings that back up what I said. Haha. But my point about workload remains!
Edit #2: Apparently I can find one.... BusinessWeek's ratings of undergrad programs. They don't match at all what USNEWS says. whatever. I hate school rankings.
Last edited by td6624 on Tue Feb 23, 2010 6:25 pm, edited 2 times in total.
- crackberry
- Posts: 3252
- Joined: Thu Sep 17, 2009 3:23 pm
Re: Berkeley Haters
Yeah, ranovr, I've got news for you: if you can't write, you'll make a terrible lawyer.
- BioEBear2010
- Posts: 745
- Joined: Wed Nov 19, 2008 7:05 pm
Re: Berkeley Haters
Engineering teaches you a certain way of solving problems. I have heard from lawyers and law professors that this skill set is an invaluable asset in law school.td6624 wrote: But yes, hard science/engineers/math majors probably have more to do, and in many ways it's probably more difficult. But why would any of those people go to law school anyway? I don't think an engineering major would set me up for law school as well as my major has in any way.
True, but legal writing is different than anything any of us have experienced.crackberry wrote:Yeah, ranovr, I've got news for you: if you can't write, you'll make a terrible lawyer.
Last edited by BioEBear2010 on Tue Feb 23, 2010 6:28 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Communicate now with those who not only know what a legal education is, but can offer you worthy advice and commentary as you complete the three most educational, yet challenging years of your law related post graduate life.
Register now, it's still FREE!
Already a member? Login
-
- Posts: 18203
- Joined: Wed Oct 14, 2009 10:47 pm
Re: Berkeley Haters
1)The business major probably did less work.td6624 wrote:
Oh come on, First of all, my undergrad apparently has the #2 business program in the country, and the accounting/finance majors certainly don't do any more work that I do. And it's pretty disingenuous to reduce every liberal arts major to "writing about how you feel." I've never gotten to do that.
But yes, hard science/engineers/math majors probably have more to do, and in many ways it's probably more difficult. But why would any of those people go to law school anyway? I don't think an engineering major would set me up for law school as well as my major has in any way.
2)Engineering is the only undergrad degree that actually helps people get post law school jobs. Patent law for the win.
- crackberry
- Posts: 3252
- Joined: Thu Sep 17, 2009 3:23 pm
Re: Berkeley Haters
Yes, you're right, and you'll be fine; I've seen your writing. Some engineers seriously can't put a sentence together properly, though.BioEBear2010 wrote:True, but legal writing is different than anything any of us have experienced.crackberry wrote:Yeah, ranovr, I've got news for you: if you can't write, you'll make a terrible lawyer.
-
- Posts: 551
- Joined: Sun Jan 31, 2010 6:45 pm
Re: Berkeley Haters
Yeah, I suppose I was being a bit presumptuous by mentioning engineering. I think my general point can still stand though.BioEBear2010 wrote:Engineering teaches you a certain way of solving problems. I have heard from lawyers and law professors that this skill set is an invaluable asset in law school.td6624 wrote: But yes, hard science/engineers/math majors probably have more to do, and in many ways it's probably more difficult. But why would any of those people go to law school anyway? I don't think an engineering major would set me up for law school as well as my major has in any way.
- BioEBear2010
- Posts: 745
- Joined: Wed Nov 19, 2008 7:05 pm
Re: Berkeley Haters
Yeah, I was just trying to defend my majortd6624 wrote:Yeah, I suppose I was being a bit presumptuous by mentioning engineering. I think my general point can still stand though.BioEBear2010 wrote:Engineering teaches you a certain way of solving problems. I have heard from lawyers and law professors that this skill set is an invaluable asset in law school.td6624 wrote: But yes, hard science/engineers/math majors probably have more to do, and in many ways it's probably more difficult. But why would any of those people go to law school anyway? I don't think an engineering major would set me up for law school as well as my major has in any way.
True, and well played. Unfortunately, I have to work with these people on a daily basis.crackberry wrote:Yes, you're right, and you'll be fine; I've seen your writing. Some engineers seriously can't put a sentence together properly, though.BioEBear2010 wrote:True, but legal writing is different than anything any of us have experienced.crackberry wrote:Yeah, ranovr, I've got news for you: if you can't write, you'll make a terrible lawyer.
Seriously? What are you waiting for?
Now there's a charge.
Just kidding ... it's still FREE!
Already a member? Login