Penn or Michigan?

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rockchalk86
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Penn or Michigan?

Postby rockchalk86 » Fri Jan 22, 2010 12:02 pm

So I just got accepted to Penn! I have a 45k scholarship from Michigan, but I have not heard about a scholarship from Penn. I would like to end up in NYC. What would you do?

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puppleberry finn
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Re: Penn or Michigan?

Postby puppleberry finn » Fri Jan 22, 2010 12:06 pm

wait until penn makes a decision on $$ and then decide. Make sure to tell them about your offer from Michigan if they give you less than 45k.

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Aeroplane
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Re: Penn or Michigan?

Postby Aeroplane » Fri Jan 22, 2010 12:07 pm

I was in the same exact situation last year, except for the part about wanting to be in NYC. I chose Michigan when Penn wouldn't give me any scholarship at all, even knowing about my UM one (I had a crappy GPA so maybe that is why). I've heard that Penn places a bit better in NYC and gets more NY firms in for OCI, but I don't know how much of a difference it ultimately makes. I personally don't think there's enough difference between them to justify an extra $50-55K debt (interest, fees, higher total COA at Penn, etc).

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rockchalk86
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Re: Penn or Michigan?

Postby rockchalk86 » Fri Jan 22, 2010 12:13 pm

Can you take classes from Wharton? I feel like that would be a fantastic opportunity. Honestly, money is not the real issue... job prospects are. I know Penn has a smaller class so I feel like that is a plus as well. I really like Michigan, but I want to make the right choice as well. I believe some discourse is in order.
Last edited by rockchalk86 on Fri Jan 22, 2010 10:44 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Aeroplane
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Re: Penn or Michigan?

Postby Aeroplane » Fri Jan 22, 2010 12:16 pm

^^^If you don't care about the money at all, and the only issue for you is "job prospects in NYC" and nothing else, then I guess I'd say go to Penn. I think smaller class + proximity + (if true) longer NY firm OCI list makes it advantageous.

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The Pen Is Mightier
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Re: Penn or Michigan?

Postby The Pen Is Mightier » Fri Jan 22, 2010 12:30 pm

Michigan, dude. Better experience and better placement pecause of it. Check placement stats.

Ultimately though, go with (a) $$$$$ and (b) your gut since you'll do better at a place you're happier and that matters muchmuch more that any marginal benefits one program has over the other. You'll perform better knowing you went with what you truly wanted. Plus there's plenty of time to sell out after LS.

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Aeon
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Re: Penn or Michigan?

Postby Aeon » Fri Jan 22, 2010 2:03 pm

Congrats on the Penn acceptance! Michigan and Penn are pretty much considered to be of comparable quality (MVP for the win). As already mentioned, I'd wait to see what Penn offers you as far as scholarship money and hold off on making a final decision until that happens. Ultimately, if you have no strong preference for one over the other, I'd recommend visiting both and getting a feel for the schools in person.

yourdadcalled
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Re: Penn or Michigan?

Postby yourdadcalled » Sun Jan 24, 2010 2:44 am

Go to Michigan. Beautiful campus and much less gunnerish.

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vanwinkle
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Re: Penn or Michigan?

Postby vanwinkle » Sun Jan 24, 2010 2:46 am

I so totally wanted to go to Penn. Ask them about scholarships, if they give you less ask them to match Michigan, if they do then take it and enjoy the Ivy League.

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PDaddy
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Re: Penn or Michigan?

Postby PDaddy » Sun Jan 24, 2010 2:50 am

rockchalk86 wrote:So I just got accepted to Penn! I have a 45k scholarship from Michigan, but I have not heard about a scholarship from Penn. I would like to end up in NYC. What would you do?


So is the package $135K total or $45K total? All else held equal, I would say go to Penn. NY firms love Penn grads. And Penn stresses "interdisciplinary education", meaning they urge you to take classes at Wharton, etc. And you can pitch your own projects and study abroad programs (i.e., choosing to go to a city they've never heard of won't preclude you from going there). If you have an idea, Penn will roll with it.

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im_blue
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Re: Penn or Michigan?

Postby im_blue » Sun Jan 24, 2010 4:04 am

For NYC biglaw, I would choose Penn if they match Michigan's scholarship.

postitnotes
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Re: Penn or Michigan?

Postby postitnotes » Sun Jan 24, 2010 4:30 am

If Penn matches, go to Penn. If not, go to Michigan. 45k is a significant amount of dough and you will likely to have to end up in the same rank at each school to get NYC biglaw.

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Helmholtz
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Re: Penn or Michigan?

Postby Helmholtz » Sun Jan 24, 2010 4:32 am

I would honestly go to Michigan over Penn even with equal money, but that's just me.

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im_blue
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Re: Penn or Michigan?

Postby im_blue » Sun Jan 24, 2010 4:44 am

Helmholtz wrote:I would honestly go to Michigan over Penn even with equal money, but that's just me.


Well, given the choice most people would choose to go to law school in a city, even if that city is Philly. That's probably why Penn gets higher numbers (3.82/170) than Michigan (3.70/169) despite being dead even in quality and placement. OTOH Michigan certainly doesn't lack fans on TLS, so they have their own merits as well.

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rockchalk86
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Re: Penn or Michigan?

Postby rockchalk86 » Sun Jan 24, 2010 10:25 am

Thanks for all the great advice. I have already planned visits to both schools and I think that is how I will decide between the two. Still waiting on Chicago and NYU though and I would take both at sticker over Penn or Michigan.

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ShibaDan
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Re: Penn or Michigan?

Postby ShibaDan » Sun Jan 24, 2010 10:28 am

Congrats! I am still waiting on Penn but I hope to be in your position. I really really like Penn but Michigan has been growing on me recently.

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MC Southstar
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Re: Penn or Michigan?

Postby MC Southstar » Sun Jan 24, 2010 11:19 am

im_blue wrote:
Helmholtz wrote:I would honestly go to Michigan over Penn even with equal money, but that's just me.


Well, given the choice most people would choose to go to law school in a city, even if that city is Philly. That's probably why Penn gets higher numbers (3.82/170) than Michigan (3.70/169) despite being dead even in quality and placement. OTOH Michigan certainly doesn't lack fans on TLS, so they have their own merits as well.


FWIW, Philly is actually a pretty nice city. Depends on what you like, I guess.

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kurla88
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Re: Penn or Michigan?

Postby kurla88 » Sun Jan 24, 2010 11:55 am

yourdadcalled wrote:Go to Michigan. Beautiful campus and much less gunnerish.


... Penn is not gunnerish. We're nauseatingly collegial.

But wait for $$, then decide. Can't go wrong either way. Penn does place more in NYC, whether through self-selection or whatever.

fortissimo
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Re: Penn or Michigan?

Postby fortissimo » Sun Jan 24, 2010 12:02 pm

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Last edited by fortissimo on Sat Mar 20, 2010 1:24 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Georgiana
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Re: Penn or Michigan?

Postby Georgiana » Sun Jan 24, 2010 12:15 pm

kurla88 wrote:
yourdadcalled wrote:Go to Michigan. Beautiful campus and much less gunnerish.


... Penn is not gunnerish. We're nauseatingly collegial.

But wait for $$, then decide. Can't go wrong either way. Penn does place more in NYC, whether through self-selection or whatever.

+1

Not sure where gunnerish came from, were you thinking of CLS or Chicago?

I vote for waiting on money. I was in the opposite situation (money from Penn but nothing from Mich) and it made deciding not to go to Mich much easier when they said they wouldn't be offering anything. All else equal I would have gone to Penn over Mich because of the city thing. If you want NYC I would think Penn might be a better choice but Mich won't prevent you from getting NYC.

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TTH
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Re: Penn or Michigan?

Postby TTH » Sun Jan 24, 2010 12:18 pm

+1 for waiting to see what Penn offers. If it were me, I'd take whichever one is going to have the lower price tag after scholly. Both will get you to NYC, maybe a little more likely at Penn than at Mich, but you're going to have options. Congratulations.

awesomepossum
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Re: Penn or Michigan?

Postby awesomepossum » Sun Jan 24, 2010 12:29 pm

It's kind of hard to figure out the "which is more likely to get you the job" question in cases like this.

If it were say Harvard vs. Ohio State (yes I'm picking on them) it's clearly easy to figure out. The question isn't which places more people, but if you are a given student...which school will help you get a job?

It's complicated because the factors that would affect things include:

-How easy it is to be a given class rank.
-Given a certain class rank what schools are willing to give you a callback.
-Which school's OCI will allow you to get more screening interviews in NYC (or at least the ones you want) which calls into question the amount of competition for slots and the mechanics of getting the bids you put in which is different from place to place. The way we do it is a no-screen system which in some ways is good, and some ways is bad.

My guess is honestly that it's pretty similar between Penn and Michigan. People that I know of at UMich who have been looking for jobs in NYC even in this horrific environment have been successful. OTOH, my guess is people who aren't successful by and large don't talk about it. I also know people from Penn who aren't super top of their class who have gotten some pretty nice firms.

My suggestion overall is that a person visit both schools and decide which environment they prefer. I really think that's the most important thing.

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rockchalk86
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Re: Penn or Michigan?

Postby rockchalk86 » Sun Jan 24, 2010 2:32 pm

I honestly feel like I am going to like both places a lot. I love college towns (spending 4 years in Lawrence was amazing) but I also love being in a city. I am big into sports so Michigan is amazing for that, but I also love the idea of taking classes at Wharton. I want NYC now but in 3 years... who knows. If I decide I want Chicago or Cali, Michigan would be a better option. The small class size at Penn is nice, but how helpful really is that in getting a job?

This decision is so crazy... I hope I get into NYU so i don't have to worry anymore.

woeisme
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Re: Penn or Michigan?

Postby woeisme » Sun Jan 24, 2010 5:48 pm

Penn

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im_blue
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Re: Penn or Michigan?

Postby im_blue » Sun Jan 24, 2010 9:43 pm

rockchalk86 wrote:I honestly feel like I am going to like both places a lot. I love college towns (spending 4 years in Lawrence was amazing) but I also love being in a city. I am big into sports so Michigan is amazing for that, but I also love the idea of taking classes at Wharton. I want NYC now but in 3 years... who knows. If I decide I want Chicago or Cali, Michigan would be a better option. The small class size at Penn is nice, but how helpful really is that in getting a job?

This decision is so crazy... I hope I get into NYU so i don't have to worry anymore.


You're about 50/50 for NYU based on last year's LSN cycle, so I vote for waiting for their decision. Good luck!




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