George Mason or American?

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crm
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George Mason or American?

Postby crm » Thu Jan 21, 2010 4:12 pm

I want to go into international or national securities law and have been accepted so far to American and GMU. I was wondering which school has a better rep in the DC area and which one would be better? I'm not sure if I want biglaw or government but, I was just wondering. Thanks for the advice!

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gwuorbust
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Re: George Mason or American?

Postby gwuorbust » Thu Jan 21, 2010 6:23 pm

Georgetown > GWU > GMU > American

American at sticker = very bad choice

crm
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Re: George Mason or American?

Postby crm » Thu Jan 21, 2010 8:31 pm

gwuorbust wrote:Georgetown > GWU > GMU > American

American at sticker = very bad choice



thats what i was thinking, thanks!

jetlagz28
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Re: George Mason or American?

Postby jetlagz28 » Thu Jan 21, 2010 8:34 pm

Both are arguably academically equals, but GMU is cheaper if you can get in state.

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cherryalamode
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Re: George Mason or American?

Postby cherryalamode » Mon Jan 25, 2010 1:18 am

FYI, American University is strongly ranked in International Law.

Number 5, I think. To be ranked so well, it might have some great employment prospects... so yea, I would suggest for you to factor that in.

Harry Ballsogna
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Re: George Mason or American?

Postby Harry Ballsogna » Mon Jan 25, 2010 1:29 pm

cherryalamode wrote:FYI, American University is strongly ranked in International Law.

Number 5, I think. To be ranked so well, it might have some great employment prospects... so yea, I would suggest for you to factor that in.



This is wrong.

Maybe I'm being an Aspie and missing your blatant sarcasm?

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ATOIsp07
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Re: George Mason or American?

Postby ATOIsp07 » Mon Jan 25, 2010 1:52 pm

Harry Ballsogna wrote:
cherryalamode wrote:FYI, American University is strongly ranked in International Law.

Number 5, I think. To be ranked so well, it might have some great employment prospects... so yea, I would suggest for you to factor that in.



This is wrong.

Maybe I'm being an Aspie and missing your blatant sarcasm?


Actually, it's true. Just google the rankings.

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najumobi
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Re: George Mason or American?

Postby najumobi » Mon Jan 25, 2010 2:11 pm

crm wrote:I want to go into international or national securities law and have been accepted so far to American and GMU. I was wondering which school has a better rep in the DC area and which one would be better? I'm not sure if I want biglaw or government but, I was just wondering. Thanks for the advice!

have no idea about international or national securities law. as far as graduates' salaries, both are similar. ~2/3 of both schools' grads make at or below 60k-70k a year. with ~1/3 working in public service jobs making around 55k/yr. you would probably have a greater chance to be employed by a law firm coming out of american, while gmu seems be better for clerkships.

eaters333
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Re: George Mason or American?

Postby eaters333 » Mon Jan 25, 2010 2:17 pm

American has the number 6 international law program in the country on USNWR, GMU is not even top ten

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gwuorbust
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Re: George Mason or American?

Postby gwuorbust » Mon Jan 25, 2010 2:50 pm

eaters333 wrote:American has the number 6 international law program in the country on USNWR, GMU is not even top ten


how many employers look at those? not enough to make a difference in the starting salaries.

2007 median GMU starting salary in the private sector: 150k
2007 median American starting salary in the private sector: 90k

plus, as another poster said, GMU is cheaper if you do in-state.

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najumobi
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Re: George Mason or American?

Postby najumobi » Mon Jan 25, 2010 2:55 pm

gwuorbust wrote:
eaters333 wrote:American has the number 6 international law program in the country on USNWR, GMU is not even top ten


how many employers look at those? not enough to make a difference in the starting salaries.

2007 median GMU starting salary in the private sector: 150k
2007 median American starting salary in the private sector: 90k

plus, as another poster said, GMU is cheaper if you do in-state.

don't know where you got your data from, but that is not the number george mason reported to usnews. they reported 110k, not 150k. gmu reported 147k as the 75th percentile for private sector. the 90k amount for american is consistent with usnews. even then only 70% or so of graduates responded to the survey. to get a more accurate picture of salary data look at my previous response.

i think the schools are pretty similar, so if gmu is in fact cheaper, it would probably be best to go there instead of american.

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ATOIsp07
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Re: George Mason or American?

Postby ATOIsp07 » Mon Jan 25, 2010 3:07 pm

najumobi wrote:
gwuorbust wrote:
eaters333 wrote:American has the number 6 international law program in the country on USNWR, GMU is not even top ten


how many employers look at those? not enough to make a difference in the starting salaries.

2007 median GMU starting salary in the private sector: 150k
2007 median American starting salary in the private sector: 90k

plus, as another poster said, GMU is cheaper if you do in-state.

don't know where you got your data from, but that is not the number george mason reported to usnews. they reported 110k, not 150k. gmu reported 147k as the 75th percentile for private sector. the 90k amount for american is consistent with usnews. even then only 70% or so of graduates responded to the survey. to get a more accurate picture of salary data look at my previous response.

i think the schools are pretty similar, so if gmu is in fact cheaper, it would probably be best to go there instead of american.



it's true that GMU is cheaper but only if you live in-state. otherwise, both schools are really similar in price. plus, one needs to consider the campus atmosphere, student body, political aura of both places to truly differentiate between the two. though both reputable, they're two different animals.

American-suburban, left-bending, diverse student body, geared towards pub. interest, international law, gov.
GMU-relatively urban, right-leaning, older student body, geared towards economics, tax and business law

both are at opposite ends of the spectrum.

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najumobi
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Re: George Mason or American?

Postby najumobi » Mon Jan 25, 2010 3:14 pm

ATOIsp07 wrote:it's true that GMU is cheaper but only if you live in-state. otherwise, both schools are really similar in price. plus, one needs to consider the campus atmosphere, student body, political aura of both places to truly differentiate between the two. though both reputable, they're two different animals.

American-suburban, left-bending, diverse student body, geared towards pub. interest, international law, gov.
GMU-relatively urban, right-leaning, older student body, geared towards economics, tax and business law

both are at opposite ends of the spectrum.
wow...guess they're a lot different than i thought. i had no idea about these attributes of the schools.

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ATOIsp07
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Re: George Mason or American?

Postby ATOIsp07 » Mon Jan 25, 2010 3:20 pm

najumobi wrote:
ATOIsp07 wrote:it's true that GMU is cheaper but only if you live in-state. otherwise, both schools are really similar in price. plus, one needs to consider the campus atmosphere, student body, political aura of both places to truly differentiate between the two. though both reputable, they're two different animals.

American-suburban, left-bending, diverse student body, geared towards pub. interest, international law, gov.
GMU-relatively urban, right-leaning, older student body, geared towards economics, tax and business law

both are at opposite ends of the spectrum.
wow...guess they're a lot different than i thought. i had no idea about these attributes of the schools.


and this is why I'd never feel at home at GMU. as far as I'm considered, American is my safe haven

Harry Ballsogna
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Re: George Mason or American?

Postby Harry Ballsogna » Mon Jan 25, 2010 7:44 pm

ATOIsp07 wrote:
Harry Ballsogna wrote:
cherryalamode wrote:FYI, American University is strongly ranked in International Law.

Number 5, I think. To be ranked so well, it might have some great employment prospects... so yea, I would suggest for you to factor that in.



This is wrong.

Maybe I'm being an Aspie and missing your blatant sarcasm?


Actually, it's true. Just google the rankings.


What exactly do you think American being ranked #5 in International law has to do with employment prospects?

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cherryalamode
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Re: George Mason or American?

Postby cherryalamode » Mon Jan 25, 2010 8:22 pm

Harry Ballsogna wrote:
ATOIsp07 wrote:
Harry Ballsogna wrote:
cherryalamode wrote:FYI, American University is strongly ranked in International Law.

Number 5, I think. To be ranked so well, it might have some great employment prospects... so yea, I would suggest for you to factor that in.



This is wrong.

Maybe I'm being an Aspie and missing your blatant sarcasm?


Actually, it's true. Just google the rankings.


What exactly do you think American being ranked #5 in International law has to do with employment prospects?


Well I would assume with strong programs comes strong reputations (at the very least in that field). Why WOULDN'T strong programs have a strong employment network?

EDIT: wow, I really like the word "strong" lol...

Anyway my point is, I feel that a strength in a particular field means SOMETHING, otherwise, why even rank it?

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jcunni5
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Re: George Mason or American?

Postby jcunni5 » Mon Jan 25, 2010 8:24 pm

GMU> AU plus i've heard talk that GMU is kind of a rising star I think Ken may have said that in one of his posts

Harry Ballsogna
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Re: George Mason or American?

Postby Harry Ballsogna » Mon Jan 25, 2010 8:42 pm

cherryalamode wrote:Well I would assume with strong programs comes strong reputations (at the very least in that field). Why WOULDN'T strong programs have a strong employment network?

EDIT: wow, I really like the word "strong" lol...

Anyway my point is, I feel that a strength in a particular field means SOMETHING, otherwise, why even rank it?



http://grad-schools.usnews.rankingsandr ... tional-law

This is the list... An employer isn't going to pick and American grad (6th) over a Stanford grad (10th) because of the international law rankings. The secondary rankings literally mean next to nothing.

crm
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Re: George Mason or American?

Postby crm » Mon Jan 25, 2010 9:47 pm

Yea, I am coming from California and am still waiting for more schools to hear back from, but so far it is the two and I am probably considering GMU over American. I'm out of state so tuition is more comparable than if in-state, but still cheaper than AU. Plus, I am a little more on the conservative side, which apparently is what GMU is like...I appreciate all of your guys' advice

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thesealocust
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Re: George Mason or American?

Postby thesealocust » Tue Jan 26, 2010 1:25 am

edit: never mind
Last edited by thesealocust on Wed Jun 30, 2010 11:15 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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xanderdellus
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Re: George Mason or American?

Postby xanderdellus » Tue Jan 26, 2010 9:05 am

ATOIsp07 wrote:it's true that GMU is cheaper but only if you live in-state. otherwise, both schools are really similar in price. plus, one needs to consider the campus atmosphere, student body, political aura of both places to truly differentiate between the two. though both reputable, they're two different animals.

American-suburban, left-bending, diverse student body, geared towards pub. interest, international law, gov.
GMU-relatively urban, right-leaning, older student body, geared towards economics, tax and business law

both are at opposite ends of the spectrum.


How do you figure GMU urban and American Suburban when GMU is in Arlington (a suburb) and American is in DC (a city)? i haven't visited either campus, so they may have that feel, but it seems counter-intuitive.

umichgrad
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Re: George Mason or American?

Postby umichgrad » Tue Jan 26, 2010 12:20 pm

GMU is in an urban area, while American is in Tenleytown, a very quiet and pretty suburban area on the edge of DC. Previous poster is correct in saying that GMU is older, more conservative, economically-bent, and more urban; WCL is indeed more liberal, younger, more diverse, and more PI-focused.

About salaries, most WCL student self-select to PI. That makes the salaries lower.

About international law rankings, the rankings mean nothing for career prospects; what they do indicate (and I know this from firsthand experience) is that the school puts a huge amount of effort into that area, e.g. creating local networks for students, incredible study abroad programs (the Hague, Argentina, Paris) hosting symposia and lectures, career office help, etc. So while international law is definitely a sketchy area with no real black letter law and very little actual practice, if it's your dream, go to American. It might just happen for you.

crm
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Re: George Mason or American?

Postby crm » Tue Jan 26, 2010 6:56 pm

I guess I should clarify about international law. I want to eventually work in one of the government agencies dealing with national security, defense, or something along those lines. I don't want to work in international tribunals or anything like that. So, I am thinking GMU has a better program for this considering their emphasis on military law and their homeland security concentration?

I'm mainly trying to figure this out so I can withdraw applications as my acceptances/rejections come in so that other people on the WL can get in. I'm waiting for scholly info too but still..

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wadeny
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Re: George Mason or American?

Postby wadeny » Tue Jan 26, 2010 7:39 pm

crm wrote:I guess I should clarify about international law. I want to eventually work in one of the government agencies dealing with national security, defense, or something along those lines. I don't want to work in international tribunals or anything like that. So, I am thinking GMU has a better program for this considering their emphasis on military law and their homeland security concentration?

I'm mainly trying to figure this out so I can withdraw applications as my acceptances/rejections come in so that other people on the WL can get in. I'm waiting for scholly info too but still..


GMU is probably the way to go (since it's much cheaper than many schools), but honestly, do you really know what you're getting yourself into? If you want to do something related to international security/defense, you might not even need a JD. I have a friend getting a Masters in Intl. Studies at American U. (full ride+stipend) and will probably work for the govt. when he graduates. He's already gained experience, established contacts, and will leave debt-free in much less time than someone going for a JD.

I mean, maybe you have done your research, but it seems like there are so many people on this board thinking they are going to practice law at an international level, but they usually have no idea what that entails, or they find out the hard way when they actually start taking LS classes.

crm
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Re: George Mason or American?

Postby crm » Sun Feb 07, 2010 3:57 pm

I know everyone keeps saying that American and George Mason have pretty similar employment prospects in regards to NLJ 250 firms, especially in DC, but after looking at quite a few of the firms that are on the list (I have too much time on my hands when not at work), I see that there is a lot more attorneys that graduated from American than George Mason. I was considering GMU, but now I'm thinking more so in the direction of American (pending other acceptances, if any), thoughts?




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