postitnotes wrote:woeisme wrote:vanwinkle wrote:woeisme wrote:It's interesting because generally NYC is the hardest legal market for law students to crack into.
Historically this is totally untrue. Before the recession hit, grads from every T20 school with good grades had a solid shot at NYC firms. There are so many of them, and when they're actually hiring, they pull from everywhere. The University of Texas was placing kids in NYC, and probably not placing more than they did because so many of those who chose to go to school at Texas wanted to stay in the state when they graduated.
Cornell would place a shitload of grads into NYC because people who knew they wanted NYC went there. But that was also true for Columbia, NYU, and Fordham. Now there's at least a temporary pullback in hiring, and I think it appears to be hurting Cornell more than most because Cornell was so heavy with kids going there with the hopes of NYC placement afterward, and firms are not going nearly as far down the list.
Columbia still does well because it's the best school in the NYC market, the other T14s still do okay because their grads have other places to go than NYC, but Cornell gets screwed because, even though it's in the T14, it's only the third-best school in its market, and right now there's not enough hiring to justify it. People who go there are either 1) intending to do something other than NYC BigLaw, which is probably not many, 2) taking a scholarship, so at least they're getting their education cheap, or 3) betting hiring will pick back up to older levels by the time they graduate.
But if you go to another T14 at Cornell's level you have more options than just NYC when you graduate, so if things haven't recovered you at least have multiple markets to shoot for.
This actually doesn't make any sense. I'll just touch on a couple things.
(1) Historically it has been true that NYC is the most difficult to get and you seem to acknowledge that by emphasizing the need to have top grades. It has just been traditionally seen as the most prestigious legal market, with DC a close second. Using your example, if you go to UT, you'd need substantially better grades to get a job in New York than you would to get a job in Texas.
(2) You seem to suggest that because NYC doesn't have as much need for hiring it hurts Cornell more than other places. But EVERYWHERE has less of a need for hiring. So let's take Northwestern or Michigan. These are the second or third best schools for Chicago. Chicago, like New York, has less hiring needs now. So these schools also suffer with their respective markets. And at any school, students are able to pursue other markets of interest or other markets where they have ties. I see what you're trying to say, I just don't think it's really true.
Just wanted to cut in and say that historically NYC was one of the easiest markets to break into. I've seen GPA cutoffs for schools in the MVP for OCI, and the GPA cut-offs were lower for NYC than for Chicago and DC. DC was/is much harder to break into than NYC. You could be a good deal sub-median and still pull NYC biglaw in the past. By the way, Michigan typically sends more into NYC than Chicago. Even now, I'd say that NYC is one of the easiest markets to break into. My friend who is below median at MVP got callbacks in NYC but locked out of every other primary market. The problem is that Cornell isn't just cut-off by Columbia/NYU in NYC, but firms seemed to have dug deeper into the various other T14s that also fed into NYC but were not within the state. That said, I won't comment on comparing every school's OCI until actual data was released, but I wanted to correct this notion that NYC was the 'hardest market' to break into, because it wasn't. It was probably the easiest primary to break into.
Easiest from top schools with top grades, sure, but that's because it's also the largest. I think we're saying the same thing. As for cut-off GPAs between T14s I'm not saying you're wrong (even though I think you are), ... but I have no idea why you'd think this. Have you seen data I haven't? If so, please share!