University of Houston or Tulane for the Houston market?

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UH or Tulane

UH
36
86%
Tulane
6
14%
 
Total votes: 42

waverider
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University of Houston or Tulane for the Houston market?

Postby waverider » Mon Jan 18, 2010 5:50 pm

Which school would give me a better opp't of getting a solid job in Houston? I would not get resident tuition from University of Houston... if that makes a difference.

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Aberzombie1892
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Re: University of Houston or Tulane for the Houston market?

Postby Aberzombie1892 » Mon Jan 18, 2010 6:14 pm

waverider wrote:Which school would give me a better opp't of getting a solid job in Houston? I would not get resident tuition from University of Houston... if that makes a difference.


Well...if you did not receive a scholarship from either, Tulane would be about ~$10,000 more in tuition per year (and I think it is difficult to gain residency in TX).

Both are good schools for your goal.

Unfortunately I do not believe that U of Houston has the domination effect that SMU carries in Dallas - I think part of this is because Big Law seems to favor private law schools over public ones (obviously there are some exceptions: i.e. U of Texas, U of Georgia, U of Michigan, U of California Berkeley/LA, U of Virginia).

Have you checked the websites of Houston firms to see how many Tulane vs. U of Houston grads work there? (this is assuming you want to work at a firm).

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asfasdagdsfawe
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Re: University of Houston or Tulane for the Houston market?

Postby asfasdagdsfawe » Mon Jan 18, 2010 6:33 pm

Aberzombie1892 wrote:
waverider wrote:Which school would give me a better opp't of getting a solid job in Houston? I would not get resident tuition from University of Houston... if that makes a difference.


Well...if you did not receive a scholarship from either, Tulane would be about ~$10,000 more in tuition per year (and I think it is difficult to gain residency in TX).

Both are good schools for your goal.

Unfortunately I do not believe that U of Houston has the domination effect that SMU carries in Dallas - I think part of this is because Big Law seems to favor private law schools over public ones (obviously there are some exceptions: i.e. U of Texas, U of Georgia, U of Michigan, U of California Berkeley/LA, U of Virginia).

Have you checked the websites of Houston firms to see how many Tulane vs. U of Houston grads work there? (this is assuming you want to work at a firm).



I think another one of those exceptions is UHLC, in the Houston market.

At Baker Botts, for instance, there are 3 TULS alumni and 52 UHLC alumni, including 8 partners.

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chadwick218
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Re: University of Houston or Tulane for the Houston market?

Postby chadwick218 » Mon Jan 18, 2010 6:47 pm

Unless Tulane offers you a sizable scholarship and assuming that you are a resident of Texas, U of H is the credited response.

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Aberzombie1892
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Re: University of Houston or Tulane for the Houston market?

Postby Aberzombie1892 » Mon Jan 18, 2010 6:48 pm

asfasdagdsfawe wrote:
Aberzombie1892 wrote:
waverider wrote:Which school would give me a better opp't of getting a solid job in Houston? I would not get resident tuition from University of Houston... if that makes a difference.


Well...if you did not receive a scholarship from either, Tulane would be about ~$10,000 more in tuition per year (and I think it is difficult to gain residency in TX).

Both are good schools for your goal.

Unfortunately I do not believe that U of Houston has the domination effect that SMU carries in Dallas - I think part of this is because Big Law seems to favor private law schools over public ones (obviously there are some exceptions: i.e. U of Texas, U of Georgia, U of Michigan, U of California Berkeley/LA, U of Virginia).

Have you checked the websites of Houston firms to see how many Tulane vs. U of Houston grads work there? (this is assuming you want to work at a firm).



I think another one of those exceptions is UHLC, in the Houston market.

At Baker Botts, for instance, there are 3 TULS alumni and 52 UHLC alumni, including 8 partners.


True it seems. I did a couple of nalpdirectory.com searches.

Op - it's going to be tough without stellar grades if you have no ties to Houston.

The only question that would remain would be do prestigious firms hire more deeply into Tulane than U of Houston? While overall the answer would be Tulane - the question is for Houston firms.

There is no clear answer to this. I would suggest talking to some working alumni in Houston from both law schools. One of my classmates at Tulane wants Houston and they did that when they were comparing Tulane to Washington University in St. Louis for Texas (although that was more of a no brainer).

My earlier post did not take into account that of course there would be more U of Houston graduates in Houston - if the top 10%-20% get siphoned off into larger Houston firms year over year, then of course U of Houston would have more graduates in Houston firms (i.e. Ole Miss/Mississippi College in Jackson).

chadwick218 wrote:Unless Tulane offers you a sizable scholarship and assuming that you are a resident of Texas, U of H is the credited response.


RC fail?

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Stringer Bell
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Re: University of Houston or Tulane for the Houston market?

Postby Stringer Bell » Mon Jan 18, 2010 6:59 pm

Aberzombie1892 wrote:
waverider wrote:Which school would give me a better opp't of getting a solid job in Houston? I would not get resident tuition from University of Houston... if that makes a difference.


Well...if you did not receive a scholarship from either, Tulane would be about ~$10,000 more in tuition per year (and I think it is difficult to gain residency in TX).

Both are good schools for your goal.

Unfortunately I do not believe that U of Houston has the domination effect that SMU carries in Dallas - I think part of this is because Big Law seems to favor private law schools over public ones (obviously there are some exceptions: i.e. U of Texas, U of Georgia, U of Michigan, U of California Berkeley/LA, U of Virginia).

Have you checked the websites of Houston firms to see how many Tulane vs. U of Houston grads work there? (this is assuming you want to work at a firm).


I'm not starting a fight, but this is somewhat inaccurate. UH and SMU are pretty similar options for their respective markets, and that's not a knock on either school. Pre-ITE, top 15% or so at UH would have a good shot at Houston biglaw which was about the same as SMU. I would be very surprised if Tulane placed as well in Texas, but I'll refrain from that commentary because I'm not too familiar with Tulane's placement. I can say this, you are not going to have nearly the networking opportunities outside of OCI at Tulane.

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Aberzombie1892
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Re: University of Houston or Tulane for the Houston market?

Postby Aberzombie1892 » Mon Jan 18, 2010 7:03 pm

Oh I corrected that in my second post.

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chadwick218
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Re: University of Houston or Tulane for the Houston market?

Postby chadwick218 » Mon Jan 18, 2010 7:38 pm

Aberzombie1892 wrote:
chadwick218 wrote:Unless Tulane offers you a sizable scholarship and assuming that you are a resident of Texas, U of H is the credited response.


RC fail?


I stand corrected. Nevertheless, out-of-state tuition at U of H isn't terribly steep at $28K. If the difference in tuition is small, you may be better off then attending Tulane. Clearly, there are going to be more U of H grads in Houston (self-selection and locality drive this factor). Accordingly, the # of associates / partners in a given firm is not always the best proxy.
Last edited by chadwick218 on Mon Jan 18, 2010 7:46 pm, edited 2 times in total.

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chadwick218
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Re: University of Houston or Tulane for the Houston market?

Postby chadwick218 » Mon Jan 18, 2010 7:42 pm

Aberzombie1892 wrote:RC fail?


courtesy fail?

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Aberzombie1892
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Re: University of Houston or Tulane for the Houston market?

Postby Aberzombie1892 » Mon Jan 18, 2010 7:55 pm

chadwick218 wrote:
Aberzombie1892 wrote:RC fail?


courtesy fail?


I apologize.

All of my anxiety over grades is killing me and it is spilling into my demeanor (I only have one grade from my first semester).

In fact, I would have two if a family emergency didn't befall my Civ Pro professor - this made an unfair situation for everyone (he shouldn't have to grade our exams, but it would be unfair if someone else graded our exams because they wouldn't know what he wanted).

Hearing all of these stories about people panicking because they are median and below is slightly offsetting - not to mention, many of my peers received their grades on Friday and some of them were massacred by their grade (so morale is pretty low).

But once again, it wasn't called for.

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chadwick218
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Re: University of Houston or Tulane for the Houston market?

Postby chadwick218 » Mon Jan 18, 2010 7:58 pm

Aberzombie1892 wrote:
chadwick218 wrote:
Aberzombie1892 wrote:RC fail?


courtesy fail?


I apologize


Haha, no worries ... I was just giving you a hard time. I deserved it ... hell, I typically post before reading anyways ...

waverider
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Re: University of Houston or Tulane for the Houston market?

Postby waverider » Mon Jan 18, 2010 7:59 pm

Aberzombie1892

You're a 1L at Tulane- right?

Where do most Tulane students go? I know Tulane has a much larger "reach". Does Tulane place well in the Atlanta, Miami, or Phoenix markets?

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Aberzombie1892
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Re: University of Houston or Tulane for the Houston market?

Postby Aberzombie1892 » Mon Jan 18, 2010 8:37 pm

chadwick218 wrote:
Aberzombie1892 wrote:
chadwick218 wrote:
Aberzombie1892 wrote:RC fail?


courtesy fail?


I apologize


Haha, no worries ... I was just giving you a hard time. I deserved it ... hell, I typically post before reading anyways ...


haha okay then.

waverider wrote:Aberzombie1892

You're a 1L at Tulane- right?

Where do most Tulane students go? I know Tulane has a much larger "reach". Does Tulane place well in the Atlanta, Miami, or Phoenix markets?


Yes.

Tulane collaborates with American University and Washington University in St. Louis for an Atlanta program in Atlanta to bring students in touch with more Atlanta employers that do not come to Tulane.

Many national firms with offices in GA do come, but many of the GA only firms do not (I suppose they don't need that many new hires).

However not many students here seek to enter the GA market though.

Florida is a popular market for our graduates and from what I hear, Florida employers really do like our graduates (FL is the 5th most sought after market for our graduates - it's tied with DC).

I doubt it would be especially difficult to enter the Arizona market, especially with Tulane's strength in Texas (over 1,000 practicing alumni there) - I can imagine it would be similar to Florida but not many Tulane graduates seeks to go there.

EDIT for not answering your second question. Tulane places in this order: LA (24% on average), NY, TX, CA, and FL/DC. Last year we had more first time bar takers take the bar in NY than LA. The Tulane name is recognized in other states/districts outside of these - it's just that not many graduates seek to go there (i.e. GA and AZ). The lack of massive amounts of alumni in those states would not prevent you from being able to enter those markets.

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Aberzombie1892
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Re: University of Houston or Tulane for the Houston market?

Postby Aberzombie1892 » Mon Jan 18, 2010 9:03 pm

I would hate to commandeer this thread, but any other questions would be welcome through a PM.
Last edited by Aberzombie1892 on Mon Jan 18, 2010 9:26 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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chadwick218
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Re: University of Houston or Tulane for the Houston market?

Postby chadwick218 » Mon Jan 18, 2010 9:13 pm

BigAristotle would be a good reference for U of H, but I haven't seen him around here much lately!

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Bustang
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Re: University of Houston or Tulane for the Houston market?

Postby Bustang » Mon Jan 18, 2010 10:24 pm

I took am plagued with this question (OT). I got a half-ride to Tulane, and likely no scholarship from Houston. I plan on visiting both of them soon.

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chadwick218
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Re: University of Houston or Tulane for the Houston market?

Postby chadwick218 » Mon Jan 18, 2010 10:30 pm

Bustang wrote:I took am plagued with this question (OT). I got a half-ride to Tulane, and likely no scholarship from Houston. I plan on visiting both of them soon.


It seems to me that others faced this issue last year and Houston scholarship information didn't come out until much later.

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Bustang
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Re: University of Houston or Tulane for the Houston market?

Postby Bustang » Mon Jan 18, 2010 11:27 pm

If the question were posed as "If a UHLC grad doesn't get the BigLaw job (as it isn't a guarantee, we can't assume that it is), then who is better off: The Tulane graduate or UHLC graduate?" Tulane's reach isn't solely focused in one city like UHLC. On top of that, the 'lay prestige' of Tulane far outweighs, in my opinion, UHLC's due to Houston's terrible undergraduate program.

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Aberzombie1892
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Re: University of Houston or Tulane for the Houston market?

Postby Aberzombie1892 » Mon Jan 18, 2010 11:46 pm

Bustang wrote:If the question were posed as "If a UHLC grad doesn't get the BigLaw job (as it isn't a guarantee, we can't assume that it is), then who is better off: The Tulane graduate or UHLC graduate?" Tulane's reach isn't solely focused in one city like UHLC. On top of that, the 'lay prestige' of Tulane far outweighs, in my opinion, UHLC's due to Houston's terrible undergraduate program.


I wouldn't know about UHLC's undergraduate program, but Tulane is more recognized and well regarded.

In my personal opinion, I believe it is worth the $30,000 total more than UHLC (over three years - difference in tuition for out of state).

The only time I would honestly say UHLC may be competitive would be if an Texas in-state applicant wanted Houston for sure. However if that student didn't rank high enough for a good job in Houston, they wouldn't have any other markets to pursue due to fierce competition instate.

If a Tulane graduate ranked miserably, they could simply stay in Louisiana and still have reasonable job prospects (when graduates at similar rankings at other non T14 schools would be in a very poor position - true this is partially due to Louisiana law, but the added security is there). Of course not a lot students want to stay in Louisiana but if you do poorly, you will have to either go to the state where you have connections or stay in Louisiana.

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Stringer Bell
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Re: University of Houston or Tulane for the Houston market?

Postby Stringer Bell » Tue Jan 19, 2010 2:18 am

Lots of misinformation ITT. If you guys hadn't stumbled across the pre-ITE employment graph, here it is

http://www.law.com/pdf/nlj/20080414employment_trends.pdf

UH had slightly better NLJ 250 placement than Tulane. According to LSN the 07-08 OCI numbers were 106 firms at Tulane vs. 93 at UH. Not a huge difference. I'm sure Tulane pwns in LA (actually LSU probably provides some decent competition) just like the University of South Dakota pwns in their home state, but they just are not large legal markets. UH takes the UT scraps in Houston, but the Houston legal market is much bigger.

Regarding "lay prestige", first of all that's a dumb reason to pick a law school. Secondly, UH UG is semi-respected in the houston business community. It's not very hard to get into, but some programs get alot of respect (CE, CS, Pharmacy) and the business school gets a decent amount of cred. My company hires from UH all the time.

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PDaddy
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Re: University of Houston or Tulane for the Houston market?

Postby PDaddy » Tue Jan 19, 2010 2:30 am

This is such a no-brainer. TLS is good, but Houston has a nice grip on its own market.

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Zojirushi
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Re: University of Houston or Tulane for the Houston market?

Postby Zojirushi » Tue Jan 19, 2010 2:35 am

PDaddy wrote:This is such a no-brainer. TLS is good, but Houston has a nice grip on its own market.

+1,000,000

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PDaddy
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Re: University of Houston or Tulane for the Houston market?

Postby PDaddy » Tue Jan 19, 2010 2:37 am

Zojirushi wrote:
PDaddy wrote:This is such a no-brainer. TLS is good, but Houston has a nice grip on its own market.

+1,000,000


Seriously, Tulane has this "legend". I sort of believe it because I haven't seen it disproved. But I haven't seen it proved either. I know it's a good school. But I have mentioned Tulane to a few lawyers who damn near wet their pants like it was Harvard or something. I don't really get that. Where does it come from?

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Bustang
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Re: University of Houston or Tulane for the Houston market?

Postby Bustang » Tue Jan 19, 2010 12:23 pm

Stringer Bell wrote:Lots of misinformation ITT. If you guys hadn't stumbled across the pre-ITE employment graph, here it is

http://www.law.com/pdf/nlj/20080414employment_trends.pdf

UH had slightly better NLJ 250 placement than Tulane. According to LSN the 07-08 OCI numbers were 106 firms at Tulane vs. 93 at UH. Not a huge difference. I'm sure Tulane pwns in LA (actually LSU probably provides some decent competition) just like the University of South Dakota pwns in their home state, but they just are not large legal markets. UH takes the UT scraps in Houston, but the Houston legal market is much bigger.

Regarding "lay prestige", first of all that's a dumb reason to pick a law school. Secondly, UH UG is semi-respected in the houston business community. It's not very hard to get into, but some programs get alot of respect (CE, CS, Pharmacy) and the business school gets a decent amount of cred. My company hires from UH all the time.


I agree with everything that you're saying, but lay prestige does come into play when you're applying to schools outside the state your LS is placed in.

keg411
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Re: University of Houston or Tulane for the Houston market?

Postby keg411 » Tue Jan 19, 2010 2:18 pm

Bustang wrote:
Stringer Bell wrote:Lots of misinformation ITT. If you guys hadn't stumbled across the pre-ITE employment graph, here it is

http://www.law.com/pdf/nlj/20080414employment_trends.pdf

UH had slightly better NLJ 250 placement than Tulane. According to LSN the 07-08 OCI numbers were 106 firms at Tulane vs. 93 at UH. Not a huge difference. I'm sure Tulane pwns in LA (actually LSU probably provides some decent competition) just like the University of South Dakota pwns in their home state, but they just are not large legal markets. UH takes the UT scraps in Houston, but the Houston legal market is much bigger.

Regarding "lay prestige", first of all that's a dumb reason to pick a law school. Secondly, UH UG is semi-respected in the houston business community. It's not very hard to get into, but some programs get alot of respect (CE, CS, Pharmacy) and the business school gets a decent amount of cred. My company hires from UH all the time.


I agree with everything that you're saying, but lay prestige does come into play when you're applying to schools outside the state your LS is placed in.


Outside of T14, law is regional. Most people get jobs in the area where they go to school.




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