Thomas jefferson law versus California western Law San diego

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CmonSD
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Re: Thomas jefferson law versus California western Law San diego

Postby CmonSD » Wed Mar 31, 2010 3:13 pm

cogito2010 wrote:Decision mailed 3/30 from Cal West! For those who were accepted, is this the only method of notification you received? Did anything else change on your status checker? Good luck to everyone else still waiting.


It just comes snail mail. Good luck!

WWAD
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Re: Thomas jefferson law versus California western Law San diego

Postby WWAD » Wed Mar 31, 2010 6:10 pm

I just got a decision mailed update too. Does anyone know when their seat deposit is due. I applied late, so I am still waiting to hear from every one else so I am hoping there are at least a few weeks before I have to make a decision like that.

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shepdawg
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Re: Thomas jefferson law versus California western Law San diego

Postby shepdawg » Fri Apr 02, 2010 6:18 pm

Seat deposit is due 4/15.

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johnstuartmill
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Re: Thomas jefferson law versus California western Law San diego

Postby johnstuartmill » Fri Apr 02, 2010 6:56 pm

TipTravHoot wrote:
mizzoutigers88 wrote:
Veritas wrote:if you must go to one, go to the one that costs you the least amount of money.


Definitely not good advice. You will get really solid jobs out of those schools that will totally negate any loans you need to take out.
jk


Credited. It's really a matter of what you want to do. Jefferson is better for BigLaw whereas San Diego places more into clerkships and academia.

Hey, remember that Pepperdine professor the Yes on 8 douches trotted out to make laughable arguments against gay marriage? He was a Cal Western grad. Dude's not exactly the kind of person to look up to, but he got a teaching job out of Cal Western somehow.

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quickquestionthanks
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Re: Thomas jefferson law versus California western Law San diego

Postby quickquestionthanks » Sat Apr 03, 2010 4:44 am

johnstuartmill wrote:
TipTravHoot wrote:
mizzoutigers88 wrote:
Veritas wrote:if you must go to one, go to the one that costs you the least amount of money.


Definitely not good advice. You will get really solid jobs out of those schools that will totally negate any loans you need to take out.
jk


Credited. It's really a matter of what you want to do. Jefferson is better for BigLaw whereas San Diego places more into clerkships and academia.

Hey, remember that Pepperdine professor the Yes on 8 douches trotted out to make laughable arguments against gay marriage? He was a Cal Western grad. Dude's not exactly the kind of person to look up to, but he got a teaching job out of Cal Western somehow.



Believe it or not, there is life after Tier 4 law school. Not everyone is forced to burn in a fiery pit for their transgressions.

WWAD
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Re: Thomas jefferson law versus California western Law San diego

Postby WWAD » Sun Apr 04, 2010 3:57 am

Does any one know how Cal Western lets you know about scholarships? I know they send it separately, but do they let you know it's coming or did I miss out?

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shepdawg
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Re: Thomas jefferson law versus California western Law San diego

Postby shepdawg » Sun Apr 04, 2010 6:47 pm

WWAD wrote:Does any one know how Cal Western lets you know about scholarships? I know they send it separately, but do they let you know it's coming or did I miss out?

You had to apply for their scholarships online. Then you check what you earned on their webpage.

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CmonSD
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Re: Thomas jefferson law versus California western Law San diego

Postby CmonSD » Sun Apr 04, 2010 8:38 pm

shepdawg wrote:
WWAD wrote:Does any one know how Cal Western lets you know about scholarships? I know they send it separately, but do they let you know it's coming or did I miss out?

You had to apply for their scholarships online. Then you check what you earned on their webpage.


I didn't apply for anything......they just it to me via snail mail a week after I was accepted.

WWAD
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Re: Thomas jefferson law versus California western Law San diego

Postby WWAD » Mon Apr 05, 2010 4:52 am

CmonSD wrote:
shepdawg wrote:
WWAD wrote:Does any one know how Cal Western lets you know about scholarships? I know they send it separately, but do they let you know it's coming or did I miss out?

You had to apply for their scholarships online. Then you check what you earned on their webpage.


I didn't apply for anything......they just it to me via snail mail a week after I was accepted.


Did your acceptance letter say it was coming or did it just show up? Thanks

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CmonSD
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Re: Thomas jefferson law versus California western Law San diego

Postby CmonSD » Mon Apr 05, 2010 11:08 am

WWAD wrote:
CmonSD wrote:
shepdawg wrote:
WWAD wrote:Does any one know how Cal Western lets you know about scholarships? I know they send it separately, but do they let you know it's coming or did I miss out?

You had to apply for their scholarships online. Then you check what you earned on their webpage.


I didn't apply for anything......they just it to me via snail mail a week after I was accepted.


Did your acceptance letter say it was coming or did it just show up? Thanks


It said my info was being forwarded to the scholarship committee and then there was scholarship info mailings on my status checker.

dcm81
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Re: Thomas jefferson law versus California western Law San diego

Postby dcm81 » Mon Apr 05, 2010 6:38 pm

One thing to consider with Cal Western is that their attrition rate is very high. Over 30% of the first year class will be gone after the first year due to grades. Thats a very high number. Whittier in OC does the same thing. Both these schools do this primarily to weed out their weaker students. Both schools admit students with lower LSAT's, and the ones that fail the first year will likely fail the bar multiple times. So both schools have set their grading curves to higher levels to weed out the weak students. This has proven successful for Cal Western by allowing them to have a stronger class of students after the first year, which results in a higher bar passage rate. Whittier has done this too, but with less success (minus July 08). On the other hand, Thomas Jefferson has a much lower attrition rate (around 10-15%). It's likely that if they had the same grading standards as the Whittier and Cal Western that their bar passage rates would shoot up.

I suggest thinking about that attrition rate at Cal Western. Its a risk, even if you think you are smart, which you probably are. A high attrition rate = very competitive students that study frantically to keep from wasting 60k of their money. I think Cal Western is better than Jefferson, but the attrition possibility is a risk.

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Birdman
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Re: Thomas jefferson law versus California western Law San diego

Postby Birdman » Mon Apr 05, 2010 11:56 pm

Those numbers include transfers though. Academic attrition is about 7% at Cal Western and at Thomas Jefferson its around 8%, according to the aba data on LSAC's website.

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arrrgmatey00
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Re: Thomas jefferson law versus California western Law San diego

Postby arrrgmatey00 » Tue Apr 13, 2010 4:10 am

@ BigA and @ WWAD

I received the Faculty Scholarship (full first semester guaranteed, full second based on grades then 1/2 of each remaining semester based on grades...totaling 81k I believe +like 1k for books at least at first, not sure about every semester) with a 161 and 3.2. I'm straight out of undergrad with decent softs but no life altering events I had to overcome or anything like that. I think my PS was fairly decent, probably not amazing though (I wrote about how much playing ice hockey has shaped me and what I learned etc.)

I may have checked I was interested in receiving scholarships because it would be moronic not to but I am not certain. They just sent me a letter right around when I received my acceptance (if not with my acceptance).

I was between CW and Santa Clara but ultimately the money and wanting to stay in San Diego (friends and family) are pushing me towards CW.

Sum it up:
161 3.2 81k scholarship that they sent without any real effort from myself.

Hope that helps, good luck!

WWAD
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Re: Thomas jefferson law versus California western Law San diego

Postby WWAD » Fri Apr 16, 2010 2:18 pm

arrrgmatey00 wrote:@ BigA and @ WWAD

I received the Faculty Scholarship (full first semester guaranteed, full second based on grades then 1/2 of each remaining semester based on grades...totaling 81k I believe +like 1k for books at least at first, not sure about every semester) with a 161 and 3.2. I'm straight out of undergrad with decent softs but no life altering events I had to overcome or anything like that. I think my PS was fairly decent, probably not amazing though (I wrote about how much playing ice hockey has shaped me and what I learned etc.)

I may have checked I was interested in receiving scholarships because it would be moronic not to but I am not certain. They just sent me a letter right around when I received my acceptance (if not with my acceptance).

I was between CW and Santa Clara but ultimately the money and wanting to stay in San Diego (friends and family) are pushing me towards CW.

Sum it up:
161 3.2 81k scholarship that they sent without any real effort from myself.

Hope that helps, good luck!


Thanks for posting that. I did get info a few days later and went to the recent AS scholars day. I am real happy with the school. Are you going? Have you been there yet?

ymp4
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Re: Thomas jefferson law versus California western Law San diego

Postby ymp4 » Fri Apr 30, 2010 9:50 pm

I go to one of law schools in SD. and I know so many ppl from all three law schools b/c I happened to attend every tri-school events possible this year to build network.

TJ has a policy of kicking out students at the bottom (cant remember what percent it is) after 1L. And That seems really not fair, because I've seen some really smart and hard working dudes not getting good grade in first year b/c law school requires different type of exam technique. So, dont come to law school thinking you will be in the top 20% or so b/c even if you can grasp more knowledge than any other classmates, that does not translate into grades.

USD has a similar policy, but its a bit lenient. You can always appeal and USD will put bottom 20% ppl into one writing class in their second year to teach them exam technique. (Thats their strategy to keep the bar passage rate high and they came up with that recently. So you can probably expect USD's bar passage rate go up in a few years.)

Cal Wes has similar policy to TJ, but I honestly do not know it in detail.

Anyway,
the point I am trying to make it that First, deciding which one to attend is one thing. Second, can you survive through the law school? you dont want to waste your money and time and end up dropping out or getting kicked out. and lastly and most importantly, most of TJ and Cal Western couldnt even get UNPAID internships. Even USD students (the most dominant school in SD) are struggling with job market and internship this year. USD students tend to mistakenly believe that they will come out fine b/c its USD! But the truth is that the number of top law school students come to SD to practice, thus leaving smaller positions for USD than ever before. Then, it leaves even smaller slots for TJ and Cal Western. Some of them end up not practicing law. Some of them get into law and get paid 50k a year. (can you pay for your financial aid with that?) Besides, interest for financial aid is expensive. (its 8 pt something)

I actively participated at events that invite employer panels and those employers often blatantly say that they wont even consider students from Cal Western or Thomas Jefferson.

Law school is nothing but great scheme/business institution. Please consider your realistic job prospect before coming to law school. Even if you borrow money for tuition only (120K), you will have to pay 1k a month. Can you afford to pay 1K a month when you are making 50-60k a year, and take home net 3k a month? After three yrs of law school, you will be three years older, your car will be three years older, etc. as well.

Btw, dont buy that cal western is big with IP or something. b/c law firms look at your school first even b/f looking at your GPA. Even if you become a valedictorian for t4 school, its still t4.

I dont mean to discourage ppl, but I honestly get resentful when law schools trying to get students when they know for sure that most of their students will not have bright future and will regret coming to their schools.

Make sure you talk to the students first. All the students are proud of their schools and will say nice things about the schools, but ask them about their internship, jobs, etc., not their patriotism toward the schools. Typical law students get first internship during their first summer. Then, they get to work throughout 2nd and 3rd year at a local law firm as well (or clinic at schools instead). Make sure they have those experience on their resumes before they lure you into the schools.

Dont make your decision before thorough research. Otherwise, you may regret for the rest of your life.

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Birdman
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Re: Thomas jefferson law versus California western Law San diego

Postby Birdman » Sat May 01, 2010 12:10 am

.

TheDoof
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Re: Thomas jefferson law versus California western Law San diego

Postby TheDoof » Tue Mar 20, 2012 12:12 pm

I know this is an old post, but for others who are curious, you may find this helpful. I bombed the LSAT. I mean, I straight up commissioned an al Qaeda-style they'll-never-see-it-coming hack job. So my options are slim. So these are my likely competetive schools. I'm from Orange, went to UCI, had a 3.645 UGPA, a 3.626 GGPA, and 3.41 XGPA (according to LSDAS calcs). Now, I had about 1 month from my decision to attend law school to research schools, research the process, apply for financial aid, apply to the schools, ask for letters of rec, study for the LSAT, etc. Assume I must go this application cycle or never. Took the February LSAT -- not even considered for some schools. No chance for a re-take that will affect admissions (only perhaps a difference in financial aid money if I were to re-take).

So: being that there is this somewhat hyped-up prestige-o-philia in law school forums and in the whole process of obtaining a degree, I thought I'd weigh in on a little secret. I'm working for a VERY successful and powerful law firm. I know where ALL of our attorneys received their degrees (did a Bar check online). Guess what? With the exception of ONE attorney, ALL of our attorneys got their degrees from third or fourth tier schools, INCLUDING the partners and principle of the firm. They bill at $500/hr. The MANAGING attorneys, which includes the one attorney with a tier 1 degree (from Boston) and other attorneys from tier 3 & 4 schools, bill at $400/hr. Oh, and most of the managing attorneys got their degrees in 2008 or later. So within 4 years, they're towards the top of the chain as far as billing is concerned. Attorneys at this firm start below what most kids in law school imagine they'll be making, to be sure. It's a "measly" $80k. Okay, that's half of those "Biglaw" starting salaries where you'll work yourself to an early death.

So here's the secret: WHERE YOU GET YOUR DEGREE IS NOT AS IMPORTANT AS HOW WELL YOU INTERVIEW, AND WHO YOU KNOW. Oh, sure, for the Harvard and Yale some-day-gonna-be-president crew, it matters. But for the average lawyer, you can work your way up. Even in this economy, firms are hiring. You just have to know where to look, and how to interview.

I applied to ~40 schools and have not heard back from one yet. Over half my schools were wishful thinking "reach" schools. I have very strong "soft" factors, so I figured, why not? Maybe they'll take a chance on me. Unlikely, but I still would rather know. So do not be discouraged if Cal Western, or TJ, or Southwestern is all you can get into. As long as you aren't going to Cooley, I think you'll be okay. That being said, I have a friend attending Whittier (another 4th tier local college we like to hire from), and he said the grading curve is harsh, and the competition ferocious. So if you do plan to go to a bottom feeder school, bring your A-game, because it is no sure thing. Pay close attention to attrition rates and tuition. Make the smartest choice you can, and do all your research before you accept an offer of admission.

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jrthor10
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Re: Thomas jefferson law versus California western Law San diego

Postby jrthor10 » Tue Mar 20, 2012 12:27 pm

TheDoof wrote:I know this is an old post, but for others who are curious, you may find this helpful. I bombed the LSAT. I mean, I straight up commissioned an al Qaeda-style they'll-never-see-it-coming hack job. So my options are slim. So these are my likely competetive schools. I'm from Orange, went to UCI, had a 3.645 UGPA, a 3.626 GGPA, and 3.41 XGPA (according to LSDAS calcs). Now, I had about 1 month from my decision to attend law school to research schools, research the process, apply for financial aid, apply to the schools, ask for letters of rec, study for the LSAT, etc. Assume I must go this application cycle or never. Took the February LSAT -- not even considered for some schools. No chance for a re-take that will affect admissions (only perhaps a difference in financial aid money if I were to re-take).

So: being that there is this somewhat hyped-up prestige-o-philia in law school forums and in the whole process of obtaining a degree, I thought I'd weigh in on a little secret. I'm working for a VERY successful and powerful law firm. I know where ALL of our attorneys received their degrees (did a Bar check online). Guess what? With the exception of ONE attorney, ALL of our attorneys got their degrees from third or fourth tier schools, INCLUDING the partners and principle of the firm. They bill at $500/hr. The MANAGING attorneys, which includes the one attorney with a tier 1 degree (from Boston) and other attorneys from tier 3 & 4 schools, bill at $400/hr. Oh, and most of the managing attorneys got their degrees in 2008 or later. So within 4 years, they're towards the top of the chain as far as billing is concerned. Attorneys at this firm start below what most kids in law school imagine they'll be making, to be sure. It's a "measly" $80k. Okay, that's half of those "Biglaw" starting salaries where you'll work yourself to an early death.

So here's the secret: WHERE YOU GET YOUR DEGREE IS NOT AS IMPORTANT AS HOW WELL YOU INTERVIEW, AND WHO YOU KNOW. Oh, sure, for the Harvard and Yale some-day-gonna-be-president crew, it matters. But for the average lawyer, you can work your way up. Even in this economy, firms are hiring. You just have to know where to look, and how to interview.

I applied to ~40 schools and have not heard back from one yet. Over half my schools were wishful thinking "reach" schools. I have very strong "soft" factors, so I figured, why not? Maybe they'll take a chance on me. Unlikely, but I still would rather know. So do not be discouraged if Cal Western, or TJ, or Southwestern is all you can get into. As long as you aren't going to Cooley, I think you'll be okay. That being said, I have a friend attending Whittier (another 4th tier local college we like to hire from), and he said the grading curve is harsh, and the competition ferocious. So if you do plan to go to a bottom feeder school, bring your A-game, because it is no sure thing. Pay close attention to attrition rates and tuition. Make the smartest choice you can, and do all your research before you accept an offer of admission.


I read articles about law staudents with so much debt and no job prospects and I usually feel bad for them. Then I read shit like this and realize how stupid some people really are.

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reasonable_man
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Re: Thomas jefferson law versus California western Law San diego

Postby reasonable_man » Tue Mar 20, 2012 12:35 pm

Didn't basically everyone in the graduating class of 2011 from Thomas Jefferson fail the July 2011 California bar exam? One of you kids experienced in the ways of the internetz should be able to find about a dozen sources to support this proposition..

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Samara
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Re: Thomas jefferson law versus California western Law San diego

Postby Samara » Tue Mar 20, 2012 12:50 pm

reasonable_man wrote:Didn't basically everyone in the graduating class of 2011 from Thomas Jefferson fail the July 2011 California bar exam? One of you kids experienced in the ways of the internetz should be able to find about a dozen sources to support this proposition..

Here you go: 33% passage rate

timbs4339
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Re: Thomas jefferson law versus California western Law San diego

Postby timbs4339 » Tue Mar 20, 2012 1:00 pm

TheDoof wrote:I know this is an old post, but for others who are curious, you may find this helpful. I bombed the LSAT. I mean, I straight up commissioned an al Qaeda-style they'll-never-see-it-coming hack job. So my options are slim. So these are my likely competetive schools. I'm from Orange, went to UCI, had a 3.645 UGPA, a 3.626 GGPA, and 3.41 XGPA (according to LSDAS calcs). Now, I had about 1 month from my decision to attend law school to research schools, research the process, apply for financial aid, apply to the schools, ask for letters of rec, study for the LSAT, etc. Assume I must go this application cycle or never. Took the February LSAT -- not even considered for some schools. No chance for a re-take that will affect admissions (only perhaps a difference in financial aid money if I were to re-take).

So: being that there is this somewhat hyped-up prestige-o-philia in law school forums and in the whole process of obtaining a degree, I thought I'd weigh in on a little secret. I'm working for a VERY successful and powerful law firm. I know where ALL of our attorneys received their degrees (did a Bar check online). Guess what? With the exception of ONE attorney, ALL of our attorneys got their degrees from third or fourth tier schools, INCLUDING the partners and principle of the firm. They bill at $500/hr. The MANAGING attorneys, which includes the one attorney with a tier 1 degree (from Boston) and other attorneys from tier 3 & 4 schools, bill at $400/hr. Oh, and most of the managing attorneys got their degrees in 2008 or later. So within 4 years, they're towards the top of the chain as far as billing is concerned. Attorneys at this firm start below what most kids in law school imagine they'll be making, to be sure. It's a "measly" $80k. Okay, that's half of those "Biglaw" starting salaries where you'll work yourself to an early death.

So here's the secret: WHERE YOU GET YOUR DEGREE IS NOT AS IMPORTANT AS HOW WELL YOU INTERVIEW, AND WHO YOU KNOW. Oh, sure, for the Harvard and Yale some-day-gonna-be-president crew, it matters. But for the average lawyer, you can work your way up. Even in this economy, firms are hiring. You just have to know where to look, and how to interview.

I applied to ~40 schools and have not heard back from one yet. Over half my schools were wishful thinking "reach" schools. I have very strong "soft" factors, so I figured, why not? Maybe they'll take a chance on me. Unlikely, but I still would rather know. So do not be discouraged if Cal Western, or TJ, or Southwestern is all you can get into. As long as you aren't going to Cooley, I think you'll be okay. That being said, I have a friend attending Whittier (another 4th tier local college we like to hire from), and he said the grading curve is harsh, and the competition ferocious. So if you do plan to go to a bottom feeder school, bring your A-game, because it is no sure thing. Pay close attention to attrition rates and tuition. Make the smartest choice you can, and do all your research before you accept an offer of admission.


Welcome to TLS, TJSL/San Diego/Cal Western marketing department!

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reasonable_man
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Re: Thomas jefferson law versus California western Law San diego

Postby reasonable_man » Tue Mar 20, 2012 1:01 pm

Samara wrote:
reasonable_man wrote:Didn't basically everyone in the graduating class of 2011 from Thomas Jefferson fail the July 2011 California bar exam? One of you kids experienced in the ways of the internetz should be able to find about a dozen sources to support this proposition..

Here you go: 33% passage rate



well done. Thank you sir.

Also Op, please do not take my comment to be an endorsement of Cal Western, as I believe both schools are almost certainly overpriced piles of steaming dog-shit.

FloridaCoastalorbust
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Re: Thomas jefferson law versus California western Law San diego

Postby FloridaCoastalorbust » Tue Mar 20, 2012 1:07 pm

TTH wrote:
mizzoutigers88 wrote:
Veritas wrote:if you must go to one, go to the one that costs you the least amount of money.


Definitely not good advice. You will get really solid jobs out of those schools that will totally negate any loans you need to take out.
jk


Credited. It's really a matter of what you want to do. Jefferson is better for BigLaw whereas San Diego places more into clerkships and academia.


Quoting for hilarity.

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Easy-E
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Re: Thomas jefferson law versus California western Law San diego

Postby Easy-E » Tue Mar 20, 2012 3:17 pm

Did you see the other post on this board concerning TJLS?

viewtopic.php?f=1&t=180816



I would say don't go to either school unless they pay you. Well. Like, stupid money.




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