UMiami vs. UF Forum

[Pleadthe5th]

I have $$ at Miami and in-state tuition at UF that make the cost of both basically equal. I want to end up living/practicing in South Florida in a big firm such as Greenberg Traurig or Akerman Senterfitt and would like to do litigation. I would also like to have the possibility of obtaining a Federal District level clerkship upon graduation (not sure if that is what I want yet, but would want to go where I am more likely to get one). I currently live in South Florida and would commute from home if going to Miami and not have to pay for room and board. Not sure if this is relevant, but although I've lived in S. Florida my whole life I am not Hispanic nor do I speak Spanish. Not sure if this is significant regarding employment prospects, but I'd like to share all the info possible.

I know Florida's ranking is better, but is it really so much better (or better at all) than Miami for the S. Florida market? I would like to be near my family and girlfriend in Miami, but if Florida really is that much better of a school then I would really consider going there. I'd like to hear comments from people at either school and those with knowledge of the S. Florida job market. Thanks a lot!

I care mainly about employment prospects and having an easier time getting a good job (and hopefully SA position as a 2L), but also please comment on which school has better professors, classes, is easier to excel in, etc...

[Pleadthe5th]

bump...please help me out

[scribelaw]

I would pick UF, without question.

At Florida firms...UF and FSU > U-Miami > TTT (Stetson, FIU, etc.)

Throughout your career, a UF degree is going to open a lot more doors in Florida than U-Miami.

[baboon309]

It`s more liks this UF>UM=FSU>Stetson
In South Florida UF=UM(or slightly better )> everything else

[Sky'stheLimit]

It`s more liks this UF>UM=FSU>Stetson
In South Florida UF=UM(or slightly better )> everything else

TITCR

[Pleadthe5th]

Thanks guys this is very helpful. Is it just because of the current rankings that UF is the better choice? Also, how much better is UF than UM for employment at a good firm in S. Florida? Would not going to UF be shooting myself in the foot?

[Grizz]

Is it just because of the current rankings that UF is the better choice? Also, how much better is UF than UM for employment at a good firm in S. Florida? Would not going to UF be shooting myself in the foot?

UF is definitely more well respected in Florida as a whole, and generally has a larger and more rabid alumni base ("Gator Nation") than UMiami. As someone said before me though, Miami places well in S. FL, so no, you would not be shooting yourself in the foot.

If I were you, I would go to UF just in case I decided not to stay in S. FL. In this tough job market, I would like the added flexibility.

[ram jam]

Go to Florida. Miami is a shitty place to be broke for 3 years. UF is a more respectable institution, and even with a substantial scholly at Miami UF may still be cheaper.

[98234872348]

I have $$ at Miami and in-state tuition at UF that make the cost of both basically equal. I want to end up living/practicing in South Florida in a big firm such as Greenberg Traurig or Akerman Senterfitt and would like to do litigation. I would also like to have the possibility of obtaining a Federal District level clerkship upon graduation (not sure if that is what I want yet, but would want to go where I am more likely to get one). I currently live in South Florida and would commute from home if going to Miami and not have to pay for room and board. Not sure if this is relevant, but although I've lived in S. Florida my whole life I am not Hispanic nor do I speak Spanish. Not sure if this is significant regarding employment prospects, but I'd like to share all the info possible.

I know Florida's ranking is better, but is it really so much better (or better at all) than Miami for the S. Florida market? I would like to be near my family and girlfriend in Miami, but if Florida really is that much better of a school then I would really consider going there. I'd like to hear comments from people at either school and those with knowledge of the S. Florida job market. Thanks a lot!

I care mainly about employment prospects and having an easier time getting a good job (and hopefully SA position as a 2L), but also please comment on which school has better professors, classes, is easier to excel in, etc...

TCR is that neither of these schools will give you a very good chance of achieving your goals.

HTH.

[GatorStudent]

TCR is that neither of these schools will give you a very good chance of achieving your goals.

HTH.

Unfortunately, this is true, at least if the legal economy stays the way it is currently.

In years past, I would have wholeheartedly told you to go to UF; however, with the economy, I think that keeping debt down to a minimum is even more important than ever. The odds of you landing a high-paying job from either of them isn't great, and not paying room and board makes a big difference. If you're sure that you're staying in Miami, it's a solid decision to go to UM. However, if you have any thoughts of leaving s. Florida, UF might be the best route for you.

[mrm2083]

I'm in a similar situation as you except that I'm not even considering UF. I'm between Miami and some lower T-14, a decission that would be easy for most people on TLS but I'm honestly having a very hard time deciding. Over the past month or so I've been talking to a lot of prominent lawyers in Miami and basically most have told me that out of Miami UM is nothing butt in Miami it up there with going to Georgetown or Cornell. My dilemas are similair to yours in that I have a very serious girlfriend, looking at good money at UM, and plain and simple I really like Miami. Basically if you want to stay at Miami don't worry about UFs reputation because for whatever reason people in Miami think UM is fucking Harvard.

[Lomax]

What I have come to understand leads me to agree, for the most part, with rad law. I recently had the opportunity to interrogate a recently-graduated UF alumnus at one of the large South Florida law firms you hope to get a job with, Pleadthe5th, and though he may be biased, I believe he spoke to me honestly. He said that graduating from UF generally puts one on an even keel with top-14 candidates as far as competing for jobs with Florida law firms goes, and that a UF degree is valued more both in South Florida and, even more so, in other parts of the state (Orlando, Tampa, Jacksonville) than a UM degree. Do with that bit of information what you will.

I will most likely be attending the University of Florida myself, with a similar goal in mind as your own. From what I have been able to ascertain, UF is ahead of UM, and by going to UM you would be unnecessarily closing doors for yourself. The extra money you might spend living in Gainesville and the distance from home is something to consider. However, law school is a costly investment to begin with, and I do not see why one should go into it half-heartedly. Of course, you would not want to go deep into debt or never see your family, but Gainesville is a very cheap place to live and one can drive all the way from Gainesville to Miami without even stopping for gas (trust me - I did it a week ago).

Of course, there are more than plenty of UM graduates working at respectable South Florida law firms, and UM has its starting salary data to flaunt. Certainly, you would not be in a hopeless situation should you graduate from UM in the middle of your class - far from it. However, would you not want to take every advantage you can get? The question you might be asking now is, "should I sacrifice the opportunity to grab what could be a major advantage in achieving my long-term goals in exchange for a boost in my quality of life over the next few years?"

[Lomax]

In years past, I would have wholeheartedly told you to go to UF; however, with the economy, I think that keeping debt down to a minimum is even more important than ever. The odds of you landing a high-paying job from either of them isn't great, and not paying room and board makes a big difference. If you're sure that you're staying in Miami, it's a solid decision to go to UM. However, if you have any thoughts of leaving s. Florida, UF might be the best route for you.

Why does everyone assume that all 0Ls have no money and no rich parents willing to provide grants? Perhaps it is likely that Pleadthe5th fits the stereotype, but he might not. Then not paying room and board would not make much of a difference at all, and then we would not know whether or not you would still advocate UM as a decent alternative to UF.

Also, why does everyone assume that the economy will be terrible three years from now? The Dow has climbed, what, 2300 points over the past year? At this rate, it'll be at 18000 by time we 0Ls graduate! Now, I know that employment is a trailing indicator, but jobs can't come too far behind that number.

I'm in a similar situation as you except that I'm not even considering UF. I'm between Miami and some lower T-14, a decission that would be easy for most people on TLS but I'm honestly having a very hard time deciding. Over the past month or so I've been talking to a lot of prominent lawyers in Miami and basically most have told me that out of Miami UM is nothing butt in Miami it up there with going to Georgetown or Cornell. My dilemas are similair to yours in that I have a very serious girlfriend, looking at good money at UM, and plain and simple I really like Miami. Basically if you want to stay at Miami don't worry about UFs reputation because for whatever reason people in Miami think UM is fucking Harvard.

What did those prominent lawyers in Miami who you talked to say about UF? Did you ask them about it? It seems to be the case that the Miami market is saturated with UM alumni, it quite possibly being the only place most UM graduates can go, but there are still a good number of UF graduates practicing in South Florida. From what I have heard, UM offers no advantage over UF in South Florida (other than location and maybe easier access to the potential job sites themselves), and UF offers a huge advantage over UM in other parts of the state.

[mrm2083]

They said UM and UF are completely equal. I definitely agree that if you plan to practice anywhere out of Miami go to UF but the OP seems to be pretty set on a life in Miami and I believe that UM will be just fine for that.

[Lomax]

They said UM and UF are completely equal. I definitely agree that if you plan to practice anywhere out of Miami go to UF but the OP seems to be pretty set on a life in Miami and I believe that UM will be just fine for that.

But what if OP graduates with mediocre grades, the economy stays poor, and the South Florida jobs are taken before OP can make his pitch? Then would it not be better for OP to have graduated from UF rather than UM so as to have a better shot at the jobs that might still be available in Tampa, Orlando, or Jacksonville? Even if he graduates with good grades and builds a resume, one would think he would have a better shot at securing a job in a larger firm having graduated from UF, having access to those other markets in case nothing appealing materializes in South Florida.

[jeeptiger09]

I would go to UF, just in case things didn't work out. That way you wouldn't be contained to South Florida. And if you're getting in-state at UF, you must have gotten a hell of a lot of money from UM to make them equal.

LSN has a UF total instate cost at around $21K/yr (sticker + living expenses)
LSN has a UM total cost around $49K/yr (sticker + living expenses)

The difference in cost of living alone is enough to make UF the right choice

[98234872348]

Why does everyone assume that all 0Ls have no money and no rich parents willing to provide grants?

Most people don't like to waste money, whether it is their own or not.

[sarlis]

bookmarked

[GatorStudent]

Why does everyone assume that all 0Ls have no money and no rich parents willing to provide grants? Perhaps it is likely that Pleadthe5th fits the stereotype, but he might not. Then not paying room and board would not make much of a difference at all, and then we would not know whether or not you would still advocate UM as a decent alternative to UF.

The OP asserted that cost would be approximately the same. I'm assuming that when he meant cost would be the same, that he would've included those things in his analysis. If he didn't, then it might be a totally different ballgame.

Also, why does everyone assume that the economy will be terrible three years from now? The Dow has climbed, what, 2300 points over the past year? At this rate, it'll be at 18000 by time we 0Ls graduate! Now, I know that employment is a trailing indicator, but jobs can't come too far behind that number.

I'm a 2L at UF, FWIW, in the interest of full disclosure. I love it here, but I don't think people realize that "even" at places like UF, it's currently really bad here wrt employment. So far, one firm is coming to spring OCI. Yes, one.

I tend to be a pessimistic optimist, so I think there's a chance that it'll be fine w/in three years. However, I've also heard some economists say that there may very well be a double-dip recession in the legal economy. It is something that prospective law students should keep in mind.

[sarlis]

Why does everyone assume that all 0Ls have no money and no rich parents willing to provide grants? Perhaps it is likely that Pleadthe5th fits the stereotype, but he might not. Then not paying room and board would not make much of a difference at all, and then we would not know whether or not you would still advocate UM as a decent alternative to UF.

The OP asserted that cost would be approximately the same. I'm assuming that when he meant cost would be the same, that he would've included those things in his analysis. If he didn't, then it might be a totally different ballgame.

Also, why does everyone assume that the economy will be terrible three years from now? The Dow has climbed, what, 2300 points over the past year? At this rate, it'll be at 18000 by time we 0Ls graduate! Now, I know that employment is a trailing indicator, but jobs can't come too far behind that number.

I'm a 2L at UF, FWIW, in the interest of full disclosure. I love it here, but I don't think people realize that "even" at places like UF, it's currently really bad here wrt employment. So far, one firm is coming to spring OCI. Yes, one.

I tend to be a pessimistic optimist, so I think there's a chance that it'll be fine w/in three years. However, I've also heard some economists say that there may very well be a double-dip recession in the legal economy. It is something that prospective law students should keep in mind.

a "double dip" meaning that the legal economy could get even worse, despite the larger economy getting better?

[Vincent Vega]

Once upon a time, I wanted to practice law in FL, and I looked into it quite a bit. From what I can gather, it seems like UM really is the best school if you want to practice in south Florida. In no way will a UF JD hurt you, since it is a great regional school, but in your situation I think Miami is the way to go.

[GatorStudent]

a "double dip" meaning that the legal economy could get even worse, despite the larger economy getting better?

Yes sir. I hope they're wrong (which, of course, there's a good chance; It's hard to predict precise economic results).

[Grizz]

Ultimately, wherever you go in FL, I cannot stress enough the need to make law review and be top off your class at all costs.

[Lomax]

Most people don't like to waste money, whether it is their own or not.

Since when is investing on what you decide should be a superior legal education and better-respected degree that should increase your prospects for employment presumed to be a waste of money?

The OP asserted that cost would be approximately the same. I'm assuming that when he meant cost would be the same, that he would've included those things in his analysis. If he didn't, then it might be a totally different ballgame.

I see. I assumed that he was referring solely to tuition when he said "cost". I suppose he will have to clarify.

I tend to be a pessimistic optimist, so I think there's a chance that it'll be fine w/in three years. However, I've also heard some economists say that there may very well be a double-dip recession in the legal economy. It is something that prospective law students should keep in mind.

I was totally kidding about Dow 18000. I don't know about a double-dip recession, in the legal economy or otherwise, but given that nothing has been done to work out the kinks in the system that led to the financial collapse of last year, and that only frantic bubble-pumping is responsible for the "recovery" we have seen since then, it would seem to be only a question of when rather than if we will experience a full-blown depression. However, there is no way to know when the world will well and truly come to an end (unless one has seen 2012), and I feel it prudent to, having made the decision to go to law school in the first place, choose the law school that will best equip me to secure a job (in the region where I want to live) whatever the economic circumstance. Why would anyone do differently? If one is seriously worried about one's law degree not helping one find employment regardless of which school one attends, then why would one go to law school in the first place? Better get a job at a local fast food restaurant and work one's way up to a managerial position over the next few years. Then one should have both employment and a massively positive financial balance relative to that one would have had one gone to law school.

Having attended UF, might you have a hard time securing a high-paying job in Florida in today's economy, GatorStudent? Perhaps. But I would still think that your chances would be better than those of a student who did equally well at UM or at another law school in Florida. Wouldn't you? And maybe it would be even more advantageous to have a UF degree now, with fewer jobs available in South Florida and UM graduates possibly being forced to venture out of their traditional stronghold. Let the graduates of the schools with lesser reputations and/or reach drown while you, the graduate of the regional powerhouse, at least keep your head above water.

[Pleadthe5th]

Hey everyone...thanks so much for taking the time to answer. This is very helpful and insightful. Just to clarify, by cost being equal I was referring to tuition only. Miami would pan out being cheaper when room, board, and other COL expenses are figured in due to my living situation. Thanks again!