wash u vs ut

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imisscollege
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wash u vs ut

Postby imisscollege » Fri Jan 15, 2010 10:51 am

assuming that money is the same and I have literally no idea where I want to practice and I haven't (and for the sake of the hypothetical don't plan on) visiting either one, is there any reason at all that I would pick Wash U over UT?

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Stringer Bell
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Re: wash u vs ut

Postby Stringer Bell » Fri Jan 15, 2010 10:54 am

Nope. Not in the "all things equal" scenario. That's not a knock on WUSTL, but UT is a level above and Austin is an awesome city.

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Sauer Grapes
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Re: wash u vs ut

Postby Sauer Grapes » Fri Jan 15, 2010 10:56 am

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Last edited by Sauer Grapes on Sun Aug 22, 2010 5:12 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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missvik218
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Re: wash u vs ut

Postby missvik218 » Fri Jan 15, 2010 10:59 am

I have a strange hatred of all things Texas, but I also must agree. UT>WUSTL all things equal.

imisscollege
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Re: wash u vs ut

Postby imisscollege » Fri Jan 15, 2010 11:04 am

how much money/other factors would it take to change your mind out of curiosity? they (wash u) told me they are considering me for some scholarship.

what about...

public vs private sector?

east coast vs west coast?

for the sake of the hypothetical, let's briefly pretend i care about lay prestige?

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Sauer Grapes
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Re: wash u vs ut

Postby Sauer Grapes » Fri Jan 15, 2010 11:08 am

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Last edited by Sauer Grapes on Sun Aug 22, 2010 5:12 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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FunkyJD
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Re: wash u vs ut

Postby FunkyJD » Fri Jan 15, 2010 11:59 am

imisscollege wrote:assuming that money is the same and I have literally no idea where I want to practice and I haven't (and for the sake of the hypothetical don't plan on) visiting either one, is there any reason at all that I would pick Wash U over UT?


Compare Texas's economy and economic future to Missouri's ... then decide.

UT, going away. Doing well at UT offers you a measure of national portability, as well. People on both coasts know about the Longhorns. WUSTL's a good school, but less well known.

imisscollege
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Re: wash u vs ut

Postby imisscollege » Fri Jan 15, 2010 12:36 pm

okay so UT it is...although still riding some T10 waitlists and hoping for a UCLA acceptance. Thank you all for your advice.

jacko
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Re: wash u vs ut

Postby jacko » Fri Jan 15, 2010 1:04 pm

imisscollege wrote:okay so UT it is...although still riding some T10 waitlists and hoping for a UCLA acceptance. Thank you all for your advice.


I would definitely take UT over UCLA as well but that's just me

HerseyChris
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Re: wash u vs ut

Postby HerseyChris » Fri Jan 15, 2010 1:10 pm

imisscollege wrote:assuming that money is the same and I have literally no idea where I want to practice and I haven't (and for the sake of the hypothetical don't plan on) visiting either one, is there any reason at all that I would pick Wash U over UT?


This is from a WashU undergrad, I'd go with Texas. WashU is a great school and I loved my time there, but the name just doesn't reach very far. When I worked in Chicago, people at work didn't know where it was. I suppose it might have some reach in the midwest, but I think Texas would have a similarly sized network in the midwest. Texas is a better (ranked) school, and it has better connections. I'd choose Texas.

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Re: wash u vs ut

Postby Esc » Fri Jan 15, 2010 1:13 pm

jacko wrote:
imisscollege wrote:okay so UT it is...although still riding some T10 waitlists and hoping for a UCLA acceptance. Thank you all for your advice.


I would definitely take UT over UCLA as well but that's just me


Take UT over UCLA unless you know you want CA. UT does better in all other respects. I wouldn't take WUSTL over UT unless they gave at least 3/4 tuition.

doopwooper
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Re: wash u vs ut

Postby doopwooper » Fri Jan 15, 2010 1:22 pm

I would definitely chose UT over both Wash U and UCLA. I think UT has a better reputation than both of those schools, and Austin is a cooler city (in my opinion) than both Seattle and LA.

To quote Robert Frank: "To live for two months in LA is like being hospitalized."

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missvik218
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Re: wash u vs ut

Postby missvik218 » Fri Jan 15, 2010 1:25 pm

doopwooper wrote:I would definitely chose UT over both Wash U and UCLA. I think UT has a better reputation than both of those schools, and Austin is a cooler city (in my opinion) than both [strike]Seattle[/strike] St. Louis and LA.

To quote Robert Frank: "To live for two months in LA is like being hospitalized."

imisscollege
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Re: wash u vs ut

Postby imisscollege » Fri Jan 15, 2010 2:30 pm

I dunno I really would lean towards UCLA over UT (but I'd obv have to visit both). I think I want to practice in southern cal or boston and UCLA would help me with at least one of those.

out of curiosity, though, would you guys take gtown over either one for non-dc placement? I'm on the WL and just curious.

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FunkyJD
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Re: wash u vs ut

Postby FunkyJD » Fri Jan 15, 2010 5:07 pm

imisscollege wrote:I dunno I really would lean towards UCLA over UT (but I'd obv have to visit both). I think I want to practice in southern cal or boston and UCLA would help me with at least one of those.

out of curiosity, though, would you guys take gtown over either one for non-dc placement? I'm on the WL and just curious.


Cost of living in Los Angeles = :shock:

COL in Austin = :lol:

Quality of life in LA = :evil:

QOL in Austin = 8)

As for GULC vs. UT for non-DC placement ... if you want to practice in Boston, go with G'town. If you want to practice in SoCal, UT is the answer. (Assuming that UCLA is out of the picture, of course.)

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Re: wash u vs ut

Postby Esc » Fri Jan 15, 2010 5:10 pm

FunkyJD wrote:
imisscollege wrote:I dunno I really would lean towards UCLA over UT (but I'd obv have to visit both). I think I want to practice in southern cal or boston and UCLA would help me with at least one of those.

out of curiosity, though, would you guys take gtown over either one for non-dc placement? I'm on the WL and just curious.


Cost of living in Los Angeles = :shock:

COL in Austin = :lol:

Quality of life in LA = :evil:

QOL in Austin = 8)

As for GULC vs. UT for non-DC placement ... if you want to practice in Boston, go with G'town. If you want to practice in SoCal, UT is the answer. (Assuming that UCLA is out of the picture, of course.)


This.

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deadpanic
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Re: wash u vs ut

Postby deadpanic » Fri Jan 15, 2010 5:41 pm

missvik218 wrote:I have a strange hatred of all things Texas, but I also must agree. UT>WUSTL all things equal.


Same here. I loathe TX as a state, but Univ of TX > WUSTL in every scenario. I would even take Texas sticker over WUSTL full ride. I think.

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NayBoer
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Re: wash u vs ut

Postby NayBoer » Fri Jan 15, 2010 6:16 pm

Take WUSTL for Midwest, otherwise probably Texas. For myself I'd take WUSTL except for loads and loads of money because I want Midwest and don't want TX.

Although I can concede UT is usually the better choice, I think this thread oversells the difference.

Both send just under 8% to Pacific West. Texas sends over 8% to Middle Atlantic, but WUSTL sends 14%. Over 2/3 of UT grads stay in the region, versus a quarter of WUSTL grads staying in the West North Central (and another 16% go to Chicago's region). In the ubiqitous (now dated) biglaw pdf, both sent 25% to NLJ250.

Not a world of difference either way. Texas gets the edge, but it's not a landslide. I think most of the Texas over-optimism stems from the perceived state of their economy, which is an important consideration. Also, Texas has better reputation, for sure.

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Stringer Bell
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Re: wash u vs ut

Postby Stringer Bell » Fri Jan 15, 2010 7:19 pm

NayBoer wrote:Take WUSTL for Midwest, otherwise probably Texas. For myself I'd take WUSTL except for loads and loads of money because I want Midwest and don't want TX.

Although I can concede UT is usually the better choice, I think this thread oversells the difference.

Both send just under 8% to Pacific West. Texas sends over 8% to Middle Atlantic, but WUSTL sends 14%. Over 2/3 of UT grads stay in the region, versus a quarter of WUSTL grads staying in the West North Central (and another 16% go to Chicago's region). In the ubiqitous (now dated) biglaw pdf, both sent 25% to NLJ250.

Not a world of difference either way. Texas gets the edge, but it's not a landslide. I think most of the Texas over-optimism stems from the perceived state of their economy, which is an important consideration. Also, Texas has better reputation, for sure.


I'm just going to regurgitate something I've seen elsewhere, but I think there are alot of Texas firms that pay market or close to it not on that NLJ 250 list. The salary information on the schools' sites is tough to compare since it's broken out differently. WUSTL gives a 75th/25th split (160k/55k) and Texas gives average starting salaries (143k firm jobs/118k overall). On that ILRG site, in 2006 Texas had a median private sector salary of 135k vs. 100k for WUSTL. This is outdated and probably inaccurate, but still.

From LSN 07-08 OCI numbers, 390 firms went to Texas (41 NY, 34 DC, 72 CA) vs. 173 for WUSTL (14 NY, 14 DC, 16 CA).

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whuts4lunch
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Re: wash u vs ut

Postby whuts4lunch » Fri Jan 15, 2010 7:55 pm

deadpanic wrote:
missvik218 wrote:I have a strange hatred of all things Texas, but I also must agree. UT>WUSTL all things equal.


Same here. I loathe TX as a state, but Univ of TX > WUSTL in every scenario. I would even take Texas sticker over WUSTL full ride. I think.


That seems really extreme, no? You loath Texas yet think going to UT is worth 150k more than going to WUStl?

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deadpanic
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Re: wash u vs ut

Postby deadpanic » Fri Jan 15, 2010 8:00 pm

whuts4lunch wrote:
deadpanic wrote:
missvik218 wrote:I have a strange hatred of all things Texas, but I also must agree. UT>WUSTL all things equal.


Same here. I loathe TX as a state, but Univ of TX > WUSTL in every scenario. I would even take Texas sticker over WUSTL full ride. I think.


That seems really extreme, no? You loath Texas yet think going to UT is worth 150k more than going to WUStl?


Probably, but TX has more national reach and Austin is better than St. Louis.

Re: Loathing TX. I'm just bitter that a bunch of rejected Texans started flooding Ole Miss about a decade ago and really ruined their state for me.

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FunkyJD
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Re: wash u vs ut

Postby FunkyJD » Fri Jan 15, 2010 8:09 pm

NayBoer wrote:Although I can concede UT is usually the better choice, I think this thread oversells the difference.

Both send just under 8% to Pacific West. Texas sends over 8% to Middle Atlantic, but WUSTL sends 14%. Over 2/3 of UT grads stay in the region, versus a quarter of WUSTL grads staying in the West North Central (and another 16% go to Chicago's region). In the ubiqitous (now dated) biglaw pdf, both sent 25% to NLJ250.


FWIW ... UT graduated 441 students last year, according to the ABA. Eight percent of 441 awarded JDs is 35. WUSTL graduated 266 JDs. Fourteen percent of 266 is 37. Not an appreciable difference. Overall, I would bet that UT has a more active and powerful alumni network than WUSTL. If I had thoughts of working in DC someday, and I had for whatever reason to choose b/t UT or WUSTL, I promise you that UT is the better choice.

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Re: wash u vs ut

Postby Esc » Fri Jan 15, 2010 8:18 pm

FunkyJD wrote:
NayBoer wrote:Although I can concede UT is usually the better choice, I think this thread oversells the difference.

Both send just under 8% to Pacific West. Texas sends over 8% to Middle Atlantic, but WUSTL sends 14%. Over 2/3 of UT grads stay in the region, versus a quarter of WUSTL grads staying in the West North Central (and another 16% go to Chicago's region). In the ubiqitous (now dated) biglaw pdf, both sent 25% to NLJ250.


FWIW ... UT graduated 441 students last year, according to the ABA. Eight percent of 441 awarded JDs is 35. WUSTL graduated 266 JDs. Fourteen percent of 266 is 37. Not an appreciable difference. Overall, I would bet that UT has a more active and powerful alumni network than WUSTL. If I had thoughts of working in DC someday, and I had for whatever reason to choose b/t UT or WUSTL, I promise you that UT is the better choice.


Just FYI, UT's class size is a bit smaller now. My class year has 379 students in it.

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NayBoer
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Re: wash u vs ut

Postby NayBoer » Fri Jan 15, 2010 8:27 pm

Stringer Bell wrote:
NayBoer wrote:Take WUSTL for Midwest, otherwise probably Texas. For myself I'd take WUSTL except for loads and loads of money because I want Midwest and don't want TX.

Although I can concede UT is usually the better choice, I think this thread oversells the difference.

Both send just under 8% to Pacific West. Texas sends over 8% to Middle Atlantic, but WUSTL sends 14%. Over 2/3 of UT grads stay in the region, versus a quarter of WUSTL grads staying in the West North Central (and another 16% go to Chicago's region). In the ubiqitous (now dated) biglaw pdf, both sent 25% to NLJ250.

Not a world of difference either way. Texas gets the edge, but it's not a landslide. I think most of the Texas over-optimism stems from the perceived state of their economy, which is an important consideration. Also, Texas has better reputation, for sure.


I'm just going to regurgitate something I've seen elsewhere, but I think there are alot of Texas firms that pay market or close to it not on that NLJ 250 list. The salary information on the schools' sites is tough to compare since it's broken out differently. WUSTL gives a 75th/25th split (160k/55k) and Texas gives average starting salaries (143k firm jobs/118k overall). On that ILRG site, in 2006 Texas had a median private sector salary of 135k vs. 100k for WUSTL. This is outdated and probably inaccurate, but still.

From LSN 07-08 OCI numbers, 390 firms went to Texas (41 NY, 34 DC, 72 CA) vs. 173 for WUSTL (14 NY, 14 DC, 16 CA).
The OCI numbers are relevant, assuming the hiring practices are proportionate. I assume they are, that's why I'd say UT for anywhere but the Midwest.

The number of Texas firms paying market is useful, unless you want to leave Texas. Maybe this has some effect on the statistics and maybe UT's placement numbers would rise quite a bit if Texas near-market firms were included, but my point is just that outside of TX or STL/CHI it's a slight, persistent edge to UT, not a total slam dunk.



FunkyJD wrote:
NayBoer wrote:Although I can concede UT is usually the better choice, I think this thread oversells the difference.

Both send just under 8% to Pacific West. Texas sends over 8% to Middle Atlantic, but WUSTL sends 14%. Over 2/3 of UT grads stay in the region, versus a quarter of WUSTL grads staying in the West North Central (and another 16% go to Chicago's region). In the ubiqitous (now dated) biglaw pdf, both sent 25% to NLJ250.


FWIW ... UT graduated 441 students last year, according to the ABA. Eight percent of 441 awarded JDs is 35. WUSTL graduated 266 JDs. Fourteen percent of 266 is 37. Not an appreciable difference. Overall, I would bet that UT has a more active and powerful alumni network than WUSTL. If I had thoughts of working in DC someday, and I had for whatever reason to choose b/t UT or WUSTL, I promise you that UT is the better choice.
I can't speak to the alumni network, except to say that for myself I refuse to consider it as a factor because it's nebulous and every school claims a good one. It's something subjective that each person will have to judge.

The difference in class size is important, certainly. However, what's really important to students is how far down in the class you have to be to get somewhere. The proportion of students is probably a better metric for this than the raw number, which benefits big schools. If we went with raw numbers, then GULC appears to outplace Chicago, for example.

Z3RO
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Re: wash u vs ut

Postby Z3RO » Sat Jan 16, 2010 2:35 am

I'm pretty ignorant, since I'm a 0L with all my apps in (so I'm out of my 'intense research' phase), but I would go UT over Wash U. I'm somebody that likes Midwest as well.

UT has far less (and far less prestigious) competition for nearby markets compared to Wash. You're a 4th or 5th option in Chicago coming out of Wash. UT, you basically own the South along with Duke.

If you can stand the bugs, go to Austin. Also, it's cheaper. Imagine getting paid market, but market buys you twice what you get in other cities...




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