where do you draw the line with this economy?

(Rankings, Profiles, Tuition, Student Life, . . . )
Jockin Jay-Z
Posts: 123
Joined: Tue Dec 22, 2009 8:49 pm

Re: where do you draw the line with this economy?

Postby Jockin Jay-Z » Sat Jan 16, 2010 3:16 am

Rocketman11 wrote:
LawandOrder wrote:I've already drawn the line and chosen not to go.


+1

If you want to talk about cost/benefit of your degree ITE, TCR is to find another career.


Not really. If you can go to a decent law school for free and you don't have any good career options (which is probably the case for most non-science/engineering majors right now), the opportunity cost of time lost isn't particularly high compared to the benefit of middling lawyering job. Sure, there is a bimodal distribution, with personal injury or contract attorney work on one hand and BigLaw on the other, but there is a middle, and if you finish top 20% from Top 50 school that gives you a full ride, you're in pretty decent shape, I'd say. Either way, you're risking little except your time, if you're right out of undergrad and don't have a family or other such major commitments.

User avatar
ruleser
Posts: 870
Joined: Sun Dec 07, 2008 2:41 am

Re: where do you draw the line with this economy?

Postby ruleser » Sat Jan 16, 2010 3:44 am

Z3RO wrote:
dakatz wrote:I would never pay sticker at anything less than a T10 school.


TITCR. Job prospects at other schools make the risk unacceptable. Of course, I can commiserate with somebody paying sticker at Cornell or UCLA, but it's not a decision I would make...

This. It really depends on your background, goal, etc. Debt is horrible, but so is a life of T2 job ops. A lesser degree can cost you even early on 30-50k/yr, not to mention career satisfaction/potential. Beyond T14, a top regional like ucla/usc for la, ut for texas, u minn for minn, u wisc for wisc even may be worth it. But not say w/m for ny, or gw for la. Prob not gw for dc even with all the comp there.

Yet ITE, a good pt prog if you can get some $ (which is pos now thanks to usnwr inclusion) with a good job may be tcr - honestly, why not suffer with the exhaustion for 4 years to avoid 20 years of crippling debt.

But whatever you choose just realize there are no good answers ITE, except to be good enough to get $ at a T14.

sfdreaming09
Posts: 273
Joined: Tue Oct 20, 2009 12:54 pm

Re: where do you draw the line with this economy?

Postby sfdreaming09 » Sat Jan 16, 2010 2:08 pm

JSUVA2012 wrote:
sfdreaming09 wrote:I know debt is a HUGE deal, but I still think people on TLS make it out to be a bigger deal than it really is. I mean, if you pay your loans back on a 30-year plan, you’re monthly payments aren’t going to be terribly high—even if your paying sticker.


That HLS admission looks like it might be wasted on you.


Why? Because I don't monitor my spelling/grammar on an internet chat forum? You're a douchebag.

User avatar
FunkyJD
Posts: 1039
Joined: Tue Dec 22, 2009 3:38 pm

Re: where do you draw the line with this economy?

Postby FunkyJD » Sat Jan 16, 2010 3:02 pm

No1ustad wrote:
FunkyJD wrote:The only degree I'd pay sticker for is an MD.

that's dumb. DDS is comparatively profitable to an MD.


Dentists make more than neurosurgeons? More than anesthesiologists?

postitnotes
Posts: 190
Joined: Sat Dec 12, 2009 2:21 am

Re: where do you draw the line with this economy?

Postby postitnotes » Sat Jan 16, 2010 6:53 pm

sfdreaming09 wrote:
I know debt is a HUGE deal, but I still think people on TLS make it out to be a bigger deal than it really is. I mean, if you pay your loans back on a 30-year plan, you’re monthly payments aren’t going to be terribly high—even if your paying sticker.


Uh...you'd probably have to pay 1-2k per month. Minimum 1000.

Right now (I'm in law school), my rent for a 6/700 square foot+ apartment costs half that, and rent+food <1000, so yes 1000 is terribly high for many people. Once I graduate I'll probably work in a big city, where a shitty apartment costs 2k+, heavily increasing COL. Loans would probably prevent you from buying a house too if you have a lowish paying job. (And by lowish I mean 60/70k.)
Last edited by postitnotes on Sat Jan 16, 2010 6:59 pm, edited 1 time in total.

02082010
Posts: 2034
Joined: Sat Feb 07, 2009 5:10 pm

Re: where do you draw the line with this economy?

Postby 02082010 » Sat Jan 16, 2010 6:58 pm

Helmholtz wrote:T9 for sticker.


:roll:

User avatar
Helmholtz
Posts: 4394
Joined: Wed Sep 17, 2008 1:48 pm

Re: where do you draw the line with this economy?

Postby Helmholtz » Sat Jan 16, 2010 7:00 pm

hopefulundergrad wrote:
Helmholtz wrote:T9 for sticker.


:roll:


:lol:

HYS for sticker and nothing short of a decent scholarship in the 4-9 range?

gobucks8284
Posts: 27
Joined: Wed Dec 31, 2008 4:26 pm

Re: where do you draw the line with this economy?

Postby gobucks8284 » Sat Jan 16, 2010 7:04 pm

For me, sticker price is too much for any school not called Yale. With job prospects the way they are, there's just no way that I'll take Chicago at sticker over, for example, UVA at half price. (For those who want to criticize that, first, it's my call, and we all have our reasons. Second, the biggest of those reasons is my very strong desire to not be forced into Biglaw in NYC/Chicago/DC/Boston/Philly.)

I think Hofstra with money is a way better deal than American with money.

Also, I'm not sure about HS. I probably won't get into the former and didn't apply to the latter, so I don't have to think about it.

02082010
Posts: 2034
Joined: Sat Feb 07, 2009 5:10 pm

Re: where do you draw the line with this economy?

Postby 02082010 » Sat Jan 16, 2010 7:07 pm

Helmholtz wrote:
hopefulundergrad wrote:
Helmholtz wrote:T9 for sticker.


:roll:


:lol:

HYS for sticker and nothing short of a decent scholarship in the 4-9 range?


Anti-UVA trolling has got to stop.

TCR is HYSCC @ sticker.

postitnotes
Posts: 190
Joined: Sat Dec 12, 2009 2:21 am

Re: where do you draw the line with this economy?

Postby postitnotes » Sat Jan 16, 2010 7:08 pm

hopefulundergrad wrote:Anti-UVA trolling has got to stop.



To be fair, UVA has a TON of trolls on TLS, more than enough to compensate. It's as if UVA students don't really have lives and just stay on the net all day? LAWLZ. Also, some people do NOT want to live in the South.

User avatar
Stringer Bell
Posts: 1923
Joined: Wed Oct 21, 2009 9:43 pm

Re: where do you draw the line with this economy?

Postby Stringer Bell » Sat Jan 16, 2010 7:16 pm

Helmholtz wrote:T9 for sticker.


T-9? I'm guessing this is anti-UVA trolling from a Michigan 0L. This is akin to the T-5 designation that some NYU trolls are running with. I guess you'll have to switch it to T1-8,_,10 in April when UVA passes Michigan.

To answer OP's question, my sticker list would have been T-12 and Texas (in state tuition).

sfdreaming09
Posts: 273
Joined: Tue Oct 20, 2009 12:54 pm

Re: where do you draw the line with this economy?

Postby sfdreaming09 » Sat Jan 16, 2010 7:24 pm

postitnotes wrote:
sfdreaming09 wrote:
I know debt is a HUGE deal, but I still think people on TLS make it out to be a bigger deal than it really is. I mean, if you pay your loans back on a 30-year plan, you’re monthly payments aren’t going to be terribly high—even if your paying sticker.


Uh...you'd probably have to pay 1-2k per month. Minimum 1000.

Right now (I'm in law school), my rent for a 6/700 square foot+ apartment costs half that, and rent+food <1000, so yes 1000 is terribly high for many people. Once I graduate I'll probably work in a big city, where a shitty apartment costs 2k+, heavily increasing COL. Loans would probably prevent you from buying a house too if you have a lowish paying job. (And by lowish I mean 60/70k.)


Well, if your debt coming out is 100K and you're on a 30-year plan and the interest rate is 6.8% (to be honest, I'm not quite sure what the interest rate is on most law school loans, but the rate for Stafford loans is 6.8% so that's what i went with), your monthly payments are only about $650:

Loan Balance: $100,000.00
Adjusted Loan Balance: $100,000.00
Loan Interest Rate: 6.80%
Loan Fees: 0.00%
Loan Term: 30 years
Minimum Payment: $0.00


Monthly Loan Payment: $651.93
Number of Payments: 360


Cumulative Payments: $234,689.16
Total Interest Paid: $134,689.16


------

I got these numbers from the Loan Repayment Calculator from:

http://www.finaid.org/calculators/scrip ... yments.cgi

postitnotes
Posts: 190
Joined: Sat Dec 12, 2009 2:21 am

Re: where do you draw the line with this economy?

Postby postitnotes » Sat Jan 16, 2010 7:27 pm

sfdreaming09 wrote:
postitnotes wrote:
sfdreaming09 wrote:
I know debt is a HUGE deal, but I still think people on TLS make it out to be a bigger deal than it really is. I mean, if you pay your loans back on a 30-year plan, you’re monthly payments aren’t going to be terribly high—even if your paying sticker.


Uh...you'd probably have to pay 1-2k per month. Minimum 1000.

Right now (I'm in law school), my rent for a 6/700 square foot+ apartment costs half that, and rent+food <1000, so yes 1000 is terribly high for many people. Once I graduate I'll probably work in a big city, where a shitty apartment costs 2k+, heavily increasing COL. Loans would probably prevent you from buying a house too if you have a lowish paying job. (And by lowish I mean 60/70k.)


Well, if your debt coming out is 100K and you're on a 30-year plan and the interest rate is 6.8% (to be honest, I'm not quite sure what the interest rate is on most law school loans, but the rate for Stafford loans is 6.8% so that's what i went with), your monthly payments are only about $650:

Loan Balance: $100,000.00
Adjusted Loan Balance: $100,000.00
Loan Interest Rate: 6.80%
Loan Fees: 0.00%
Loan Term: 30 years
Minimum Payment: $0.00


Monthly Loan Payment: $651.93
Number of Payments: 360


Cumulative Payments: $234,689.16
Total Interest Paid: $134,689.16


------

I got these numbers from the Loan Repayment Calculator from:

http://www.finaid.org/calculators/scrip ... yments.cgi


100k at sticker? Most people on sticker are going to have loans 160k+...In-state tuition at Boalt for only 2 years is already 100k.

User avatar
Nicholasnickynic
Posts: 1126
Joined: Sat Oct 17, 2009 3:21 pm

Re: where do you draw the line with this economy?

Postby Nicholasnickynic » Mon Jan 18, 2010 1:16 am

For me, it depends where sticker is.


In state at unc for 45k? Yeah.
Out of state for georgia for 60k? In state for 45k? Yeah.
Boston for 120k? HELL NO.

I guess it depends on each person, but for me, I'm willing to pay at most about 75k.

The only places I would pay sticker would be HYS. Most likely, I'm probably going to go somewhere in the 30s with 50-70k of debt, and thats cool with me for the education provided.

User avatar
vanwinkle
Posts: 9740
Joined: Sun Dec 21, 2008 3:02 am

Re: where do you draw the line with this economy?

Postby vanwinkle » Mon Jan 18, 2010 1:20 am

postitnotes wrote:To be fair, UVA has a TON of trolls on TLS, more than enough to compensate. It's as if UVA students don't really have lives and just stay on the net all day? LAWLZ. Also, some people do NOT want to live in the South.

As someone who did not want to live in the South, I can say that Charlottesville is one of the best places to live for such people, if they were to actually do so at all. I actually don't mind living there (though I'm still going to bolt for a much bigger city when I graduate, hopefully something far enough north that they know what "reliable public transportation" means).

User avatar
chadwick218
Posts: 1337
Joined: Tue Feb 03, 2009 10:15 pm

Re: where do you draw the line with this economy?

Postby chadwick218 » Mon Jan 18, 2010 1:23 am

T12 ... sorry Cornell and GULC.

User avatar
dresden doll
Posts: 6802
Joined: Mon Nov 24, 2008 1:11 am

Re: where do you draw the line with this economy?

Postby dresden doll » Mon Jan 18, 2010 1:23 am

I am not paying sticker for attending CCN but I frequently think that I've taken on too much debt all the same. If my job prospects sans a CCN JD weren't far, far worse given my TTT lib arts UG degree, I am not sure I could justify debt at all.

IMO, unless your job prospects are truly miserable (as in, TTT lib arts UG degree miserable), you shouldn't pay sticker for anything less than HYS. And even at HYS I doubt you'd need to pay sticker considering it's all need based and all three members of the 'holy trinity' tend to be rather generous.

User avatar
Nicholasnickynic
Posts: 1126
Joined: Sat Oct 17, 2009 3:21 pm

Re: where do you draw the line with this economy?

Postby Nicholasnickynic » Mon Jan 18, 2010 1:24 am

sfdreaming09 wrote:
JSUVA2012 wrote:
sfdreaming09 wrote:I know debt is a HUGE deal, but I still think people on TLS make it out to be a bigger deal than it really is. I mean, if you pay your loans back on a 30-year plan, you’re monthly payments aren’t going to be terribly high—even if your paying sticker.


That HLS admission looks like it might be wasted on you.


Why? Because I don't monitor my spelling/grammar on an internet chat forum? You're a douchebag.


+1,000.

User avatar
Nicholasnickynic
Posts: 1126
Joined: Sat Oct 17, 2009 3:21 pm

Re: where do you draw the line with this economy?

Postby Nicholasnickynic » Mon Jan 18, 2010 1:26 am

FunkyJD wrote:
No1ustad wrote:
FunkyJD wrote:The only degree I'd pay sticker for is an MD.

that's dumb. DDS is comparatively profitable to an MD.


Dentists make more than neurosurgeons? More than anesthesiologists?



Being a neurosurgeon is like BigLaw... its not where most MDs are going to end up.

And in terms of $ per hour DDS blows MD out of water. Many DDS are able to 32 hours/wk by the time they are 40 and maek bank. LOL@ doctor working 4 days a week.

IMO, the most money for your time is made with DDS.
Last edited by Nicholasnickynic on Mon Jan 18, 2010 1:27 am, edited 1 time in total.

User avatar
badfish
Posts: 1160
Joined: Mon Jun 02, 2008 12:53 pm

Re: where do you draw the line with this economy?

Postby badfish » Mon Jan 18, 2010 1:27 am

sfdreaming09 wrote:
JSUVA2012 wrote:
sfdreaming09 wrote:I know debt is a HUGE deal, but I still think people on TLS make it out to be a bigger deal than it really is. I mean, if you pay your loans back on a 30-year plan, you’re monthly payments aren’t going to be terribly high—even if your paying sticker.


That HLS admission looks like it might be wasted on you.


Why? Because I don't monitor my spelling/grammar on an internet chat forum? You're a douchebag.


No, because you would entertain the idea of paying your loans back on a 30 year plan... Why is this a bad idea?

1) You end up paying way more than you would under a more aggressive plan.
2) You are a slave to your debt for 30 years.

User avatar
MC Southstar
Posts: 1238
Joined: Sat Sep 26, 2009 3:27 pm

Re: where do you draw the line with this economy?

Postby MC Southstar » Mon Jan 18, 2010 1:27 am

Nicholasnickynic wrote:
FunkyJD wrote:
No1ustad wrote:
FunkyJD wrote:The only degree I'd pay sticker for is an MD.

that's dumb. DDS is comparatively profitable to an MD.


Dentists make more than neurosurgeons? More than anesthesiologists?



Being a neurosurgeon is like making partner at BigLaw... its not where most MDs are going to end up.

And in terms of $ per hour DDS blows MD out of water. Many DDS are able to comforatable work 32 hours by the time they are 40.

IMO, the most money for your time is made with DDS.


ftfy

User avatar
Nicholasnickynic
Posts: 1126
Joined: Sat Oct 17, 2009 3:21 pm

Re: where do you draw the line with this economy?

Postby Nicholasnickynic » Mon Jan 18, 2010 1:32 am

vanwinkle wrote:
postitnotes wrote:To be fair, UVA has a TON of trolls on TLS, more than enough to compensate. It's as if UVA students don't really have lives and just stay on the net all day? LAWLZ. Also, some people do NOT want to live in the South.

As someone who did not want to live in the South, I can say that Charlottesville is one of the best places to live for such people, if they were to actually do so at all. I actually don't mind living there (though I'm still going to bolt for a much bigger city when I graduate, hopefully something far enough north that they know what "reliable public transportation" means).


I have lived in charlottesville since I was 18 and it is NOT the south. It's a college town.

Edited to say TY for the fix, shadowfrost :wink:
Last edited by Nicholasnickynic on Mon Jan 18, 2010 1:34 am, edited 1 time in total.

User avatar
vanwinkle
Posts: 9740
Joined: Sun Dec 21, 2008 3:02 am

Re: where do you draw the line with this economy?

Postby vanwinkle » Mon Jan 18, 2010 1:32 am

Life is about a lot more than how much money you're making. I was making good money and quit my job to go to law school. I drew the line with "the best school that accepted me" and I am very happy with that decision. It is working out well for me so far and I'm confident I'll continue to make it work well for me.

If you're someone who's just looking at this from an economic perspective, then sure, going to law school can financially be a bad idea. I'll graduate from law school and probably start somewhere making less than I was before I quit my job. But I don't care; I'm so happy to be doing something I like doing that it's worth it.

The potential shortfall at least in the short term for me is huge. I gave up the potential of having $180K of income over 3 years and started accruing almost $180K in debt for those same 3 years in law school. That's, what, a $360K net loss in personal finances? That's enormous. But you know what? I was miserable there, and the job was giving me no skills or experience that were good for anything but the job I was already doing, so I couldn't really go elsewhere. I'll take that huge loss, and hope that over the rest of my life I can make up for it, but whether I do or not, I get a huge gain in life enjoyment and that's what matters to me.

If you're going to law school for enormous financial gain, then sure, it's HYS or bust. But that's not the only thing that matters.

User avatar
grifter
Posts: 23
Joined: Mon Jan 11, 2010 2:28 am

Re: where do you draw the line with this economy?

Postby grifter » Mon Jan 18, 2010 1:39 am

vanwinkle wrote:Life is about a lot more than how much money you're making. I was making good money and quit my job to go to law school. I drew the line with "the best school that accepted me" and I am very happy with that decision. It is working out well for me so far and I'm confident I'll continue to make it work well for me.

If you're someone who's just looking at this from an economic perspective, then sure, going to law school can financially be a bad idea. I'll graduate from law school and probably start somewhere making less than I was before I quit my job. But I don't care; I'm so happy to be doing something I like doing that it's worth it.

The potential shortfall at least in the short term for me is huge. I gave up the potential of having $180K of income over 3 years and started accruing almost $180K in debt for those same 3 years in law school. That's, what, a $360K net loss in personal finances? That's enormous. But you know what? I was miserable there, and the job was giving me no skills or experience that were good for anything but the job I was already doing, so I couldn't really go elsewhere. I'll take that huge loss, and hope that over the rest of my life I can make up for it, but whether I do or not, I get a huge gain in life enjoyment and that's what matters to me.

If you're going to law school for enormous financial gain, then sure, it's HYS or bust. But that's not the only thing that matters.

This

User avatar
MC Southstar
Posts: 1238
Joined: Sat Sep 26, 2009 3:27 pm

Re: where do you draw the line with this economy?

Postby MC Southstar » Mon Jan 18, 2010 1:42 am

vanwinkle wrote:Life is about a lot more than how much money you're making. I was making good money and quit my job to go to law school. I drew the line with "the best school that accepted me" and I am very happy with that decision. It is working out well for me so far and I'm confident I'll continue to make it work well for me.

If you're someone who's just looking at this from an economic perspective, then sure, going to law school can financially be a bad idea. I'll graduate from law school and probably start somewhere making less than I was before I quit my job. But I don't care; I'm so happy to be doing something I like doing that it's worth it.

The potential shortfall at least in the short term for me is huge. I gave up the potential of having $180K of income over 3 years and started accruing almost $180K in debt for those same 3 years in law school. That's, what, a $360K net loss in personal finances? That's enormous. But you know what? I was miserable there, and the job was giving me no skills or experience that were good for anything but the job I was already doing, so I couldn't really go elsewhere. I'll take that huge loss, and hope that over the rest of my life I can make up for it, but whether I do or not, I get a huge gain in life enjoyment and that's what matters to me.

If you're going to law school for enormous financial gain, then sure, it's HYS or bust. But that's not the only thing that matters.


Well said dude. I'm also foregoing better financial options for this, so I drew the line at the best school I could get into. That being said, I still hope to pay off my loan ASAP, if that's not possible, I'll work something else out. Either way, happiness might be as simple as money for some people, but not for everyone.




Return to “Choosing a Law School”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: andpeggy, Mhr, mudiverse, Yahoo [Bot] and 7 guests