When is a law school no longer worth sticker?

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When is a law school no long worth sticker?

HYS only
22
10%
T6 (HYSCCN)
24
11%
T10
28
13%
T14
38
17%
T20
39
17%
T30
25
11%
T1 (Top 50)
21
9%
T2 (51-100)
18
8%
T3
5
2%
T4
4
2%
 
Total votes: 224

jerjon2
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When is a law school no longer worth sticker?

Postby jerjon2 » Tue Jan 12, 2010 11:41 am

I thought it would be interesting to discuss at what point (rankings-wise) people would no longer consider paying sticker for law school. Choose the choice that best fits your opinion and then post your specifics. If I don't have a choice that perfectly represents your opinion, just choose the closest. If you picked something lower ranked for a reason other than rankings, be sure to post why.

I chose T10. I only chose it because I have a STEM background (EE). If that weren't the case I would probably say T6 only.

Edit: I just realized the poll wording is a little off. I intend for people to pick the choice up to and including what they would pay sticker for. i.e. chosing T6 you would pay sticker for CCN. Sorry about that.

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scribelaw
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Re: When is a law school no longer worth sticker?

Postby scribelaw » Tue Jan 12, 2010 11:48 am

I picked T-14.

I think Michigan and UVA could be worth sticker, depending on your circumstances, especially since cost of living isn't as bad there.

I wouldn't do Georgetown or Cornell without money, though, and same with Northwestern because the total cost is so high.

09042014
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Re: When is a law school no longer worth sticker?

Postby 09042014 » Tue Jan 12, 2010 11:49 am

I predict people vote for the tier they are aiming at.

Also are you hoping to do patent law? I have an BSEE but I'm going to attend Northwestern.

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Aeroplane
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Re: When is a law school no longer worth sticker?

Postby Aeroplane » Tue Jan 12, 2010 11:52 am

When you say sticker, do you really mean $40+K/yr? Because many law schools have much lower sticker prices.

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WrappedUpInBooks
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Re: When is a law school no longer worth sticker?

Postby WrappedUpInBooks » Tue Jan 12, 2010 11:56 am

I've already been accepted to T6, but I think anything in the T14 is worth sticker.

jerjon2
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Re: When is a law school no longer worth sticker?

Postby jerjon2 » Tue Jan 12, 2010 12:00 pm

Desert Fox wrote:I predict people vote for the tier they are aiming at.

Also are you hoping to do patent law? I have an BSEE but I'm going to attend Northwestern.


Yea, I want to do patent litigation. I haven't closed the door to corporate law though.

Aeroplane wrote:When you say sticker, do you really mean $40+K/yr? Because many law schools have much lower sticker prices.


For all intents and purposes, I do. I understand what you're saying though. I'm from GA and if I wanted to stay in Atlanta I would probably just go to UGA (which would be really cheap for me with in state tuition). If you have a reason why you would choose a lower ranked school like I mentioned, I would choose that option and then post the circumstances.

WrappedUpInBooks wrote:I've already been accepted to T6, but I think anything in the T14 is worth sticker.

Sorry that I didn't think to have a "Never" option.

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Rand M.
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Re: When is a law school no longer worth sticker?

Postby Rand M. » Tue Jan 12, 2010 12:02 pm

WrappedUpInBooks wrote:I've already been accepted to T6, but I think anything in the T14 is worth sticker.


+1 (maybe)

heyguys
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Re: When is a law school no longer worth sticker?

Postby heyguys » Tue Jan 12, 2010 12:08 pm

In this economy, I would be very hesitant to go anywhere below CCN for full sticker. Even those I probably wouldn't do...in fact, I don't think I would go anywhere for full sticker in the T14, and outside of the T14 I would only go on full sticker to a school like UGA or somewhere else with obscenely low tuition.

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Aeroplane
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Re: When is a law school no longer worth sticker?

Postby Aeroplane » Tue Jan 12, 2010 12:12 pm

jerjon2 wrote:
Aeroplane wrote:When you say sticker, do you really mean $40+K/yr? Because many law schools have much lower sticker prices.
For all intents and purposes, I do. I understand what you're saying though. I'm from GA and if I wanted to stay in Atlanta I would probably just go to UGA (which would be really cheap for me with in state tuition). If you have a reason why you would choose a lower ranked school like I mentioned, I would choose that option and then post the circumstances.
Gotcha. I would've paid sticker at any T14, but only because I have a someday-dream of academia AND significant savings to lighten my eventual debt load. If I didn't care about keeping the academia possibility open, I'd probably be willing to pay sticker (well under half of a typical T14 sticker price) at my local state school (where my COL would be $0), and which places fairly well into full-time legal employment considering its modest ranking.

Esc
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Re: When is a law school no longer worth sticker?

Postby Esc » Tue Jan 12, 2010 12:24 pm

Yale or nothin'

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jcl2
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Re: When is a law school no longer worth sticker?

Postby jcl2 » Tue Jan 12, 2010 12:31 pm

Aeroplane wrote:When you say sticker, do you really mean $40+K/yr? Because many law schools have much lower sticker prices.


Exactly. I'd probably only pay 40k+ for T10, maybe only T6, but I am taking in-state (20K) tuition at a T30 in the region I hope to work, and I'm not to worried about the debt.

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rayiner
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Re: When is a law school no longer worth sticker?

Postby rayiner » Tue Jan 12, 2010 12:34 pm

HYS is really the only place where people in the middle 1/3 are very safe. It seems that you're more likely than not okay in the middle 1/3 at CCN. After that, I think the rest of the T14 is in pretty much the same boat. Whatever prestige disadvantages DCN have relative to MVPB, they have the advantage of small classes and with D/N, dominance over substantial markets not widely targeted by other schools.
Last edited by rayiner on Tue Jan 12, 2010 12:59 pm, edited 2 times in total.

Kretzy
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Re: When is a law school no longer worth sticker?

Postby Kretzy » Tue Jan 12, 2010 12:37 pm

I said T6, but for me that means HYS + Chicago.

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NayBoer
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Re: When is a law school no longer worth sticker?

Postby NayBoer » Tue Jan 12, 2010 12:50 pm

Desert Fox wrote:I predict people vote for the tier they are aiming at.
This.

Cognitive dissonance. People who can't go higher will justify their level. People who don't need to go lower will frown upon anything less.

09042014
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Re: When is a law school no longer worth sticker?

Postby 09042014 » Tue Jan 12, 2010 12:55 pm

I'm of the opinion that going to a lower ranked school at half tuition is often a much worse risk than going to a t14 at full tuition, especially in this economy.

100K in debt for and needing to be top 10% at Forham and UIUC, or 200k needing to be top 40% at NU or Cornell.

A 90% chance you are going to be making 50K in an expensive area, with 100K in debt is a really terrible bet.

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Aeroplane
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Re: When is a law school no longer worth sticker?

Postby Aeroplane » Tue Jan 12, 2010 12:56 pm

rayiner wrote:HYS is really the only place where people in the middle 1/3 are very safe. It seems that you're more likely than not okay in the middle 1/3 at CCN. After that, I think the rest of the T14 is in pretty much the same boat. Whatever prestige disadvantages DCG have relative to MVPB, they have the advantage of small classes and with D/N, dominance over substantial markets not widely targeted by other schools.

G = GULC? Small classes? You mean sections? I thought GULC had a giant graduating class, like 500 or whatever. Did you mean DCN?

starstruck393
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Re: When is a law school no longer worth sticker?

Postby starstruck393 » Tue Jan 12, 2010 1:03 pm

Aeroplane wrote:
rayiner wrote:HYS is really the only place where people in the middle 1/3 are very safe. It seems that you're more likely than not okay in the middle 1/3 at CCN. After that, I think the rest of the T14 is in pretty much the same boat. Whatever prestige disadvantages DCG have relative to MVPB, they have the advantage of small classes and with D/N, dominance over substantial markets not widely targeted by other schools.

G = GULC? Small classes? You mean sections? I thought GULC had a giant graduating class, like 500 or whatever. Did you mean DCN?


And how does N have dominance over a Chicago not targeted by other schools? U Chicago, Michigan anyone?

This post didn't make much sense

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NosferatuDracon
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Re: When is a law school no longer worth sticker?

Postby NosferatuDracon » Tue Jan 12, 2010 1:05 pm

I said T14 at sticker...but I also agree that there is an except for in-state and market...i.e. Temple dominates the Philly market and in-state tuition there is only 17000. That makes it very worth paying sticker...if you're a PA resident...

Similar situation to UGA, except for the competition from Emory grads.(I don't know as much detail about this as I do the Philly situation) Temple doesn't get much competition from UPenn because most go to NYC...you can actually hear stories of UPenn grads being turned down for Temple ones because the alumn network is so strong there.

09042014
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Re: When is a law school no longer worth sticker?

Postby 09042014 » Tue Jan 12, 2010 1:05 pm

starstruck393 wrote:
Aeroplane wrote:
rayiner wrote:HYS is really the only place where people in the middle 1/3 are very safe. It seems that you're more likely than not okay in the middle 1/3 at CCN. After that, I think the rest of the T14 is in pretty much the same boat. Whatever prestige disadvantages DCG have relative to MVPB, they have the advantage of small classes and with D/N, dominance over substantial markets not widely targeted by other schools.

G = GULC? Small classes? You mean sections? I thought GULC had a giant graduating class, like 500 or whatever. Did you mean DCN?


And how does N have dominance over a Chicago not targeted by other schools? U Chicago, Michigan anyone?

This post didn't make much sense


U of Chicago beats N, but most of them don't stay in Chicago. NU and Michigan are pretty much tied in Chicago, and if anything I think NU is better.

I'd still take Michigan over NU because its got better placement everywhere else.

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rayiner
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Re: When is a law school no longer worth sticker?

Postby rayiner » Tue Jan 12, 2010 1:18 pm

starstruck393 wrote:
Aeroplane wrote:
rayiner wrote:HYS is really the only place where people in the middle 1/3 are very safe. It seems that you're more likely than not okay in the middle 1/3 at CCN. After that, I think the rest of the T14 is in pretty much the same boat. Whatever prestige disadvantages DCG have relative to MVPB, they have the advantage of small classes and with D/N, dominance over substantial markets not widely targeted by other schools.

G = GULC? Small classes? You mean sections? I thought GULC had a giant graduating class, like 500 or whatever. Did you mean DCN?


And how does N have dominance over a Chicago not targeted by other schools? U Chicago, Michigan anyone?


U of C's and and U of M's primary market is NYC. N's primary market is Chicago. Also, the phrase was "widely targeted". The whole T14 is gunning for NYC and DC biglaw. Chicago, Atlanta, etc, to a much lesser degree.

I'm also not sure what about the size argument you don't get. Smaller classes are easier to place, both because they are less likely to saturate the local market and because law firms try and get some representation from each of the top schools.

starstruck393
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Re: When is a law school no longer worth sticker?

Postby starstruck393 » Tue Jan 12, 2010 1:28 pm

rayiner wrote:
starstruck393 wrote:
Aeroplane wrote:
rayiner wrote:HYS is really the only place where people in the middle 1/3 are very safe. It seems that you're more likely than not okay in the middle 1/3 at CCN. After that, I think the rest of the T14 is in pretty much the same boat. Whatever prestige disadvantages DCG have relative to MVPB, they have the advantage of small classes and with D/N, dominance over substantial markets not widely targeted by other schools.

G = GULC? Small classes? You mean sections? I thought GULC had a giant graduating class, like 500 or whatever. Did you mean DCN?


And how does N have dominance over a Chicago not targeted by other schools? U Chicago, Michigan anyone?


U of C's and and U of M's primary market is NYC. N's primary market is Chicago. Also, the phrase was "widely targeted". The whole T14 is gunning for NYC and DC biglaw. Chicago, Atlanta, etc, to a much lesser degree.

I'm also not sure what about the size argument you don't get. Smaller classes are easier to place, both because they are less likely to saturate the local market and because law firms try and get some representation from each of the top schools.


It's confusion as to how Georgetown, the second largest law school in the T14 (and I think the country as well), and only slightly smaller than H, can be said to have a small class size...

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rayiner
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Re: When is a law school no longer worth sticker?

Postby rayiner » Tue Jan 12, 2010 1:30 pm

starstruck393 wrote:It's confusion as to how Georgetown, the second largest law school in the T14 (and I think the country as well), and only slightly smaller than H, can be said to have a small class size...


Typo, I corrected it.

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jcl2
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Re: When is a law school no longer worth sticker?

Postby jcl2 » Tue Jan 12, 2010 1:32 pm

Desert Fox wrote:I'm of the opinion that going to a lower ranked school at half tuition is often a much worse risk than going to a t14 at full tuition, especially in this economy.

100K in debt for and needing to be top 10% at Forham and UIUC, or 200k needing to be top 40% at NU or Cornell.

A 90% chance you are going to be making 50K in an expensive area, with 100K in debt is a really terrible bet.


I disagree, 100k in debt, while not insignificant, is manageable on a 50k salary, 200k would not be. Since there is a significant chance of not getting biglaw in either situation I think the lower T14 for 200k is the bigger risk. If you will not be satisfied with anything other than biglaw, you should probably not go anywhere outside the T6 IMO.

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tome
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Re: When is a law school no longer worth sticker?

Postby tome » Tue Jan 12, 2010 1:38 pm

If you really want a career in law, and you have good reason for thinking that you would enjoy it, paying full price at a T30 is a great idea IMO. People pay huge amounts to go to nothing undergrads and seem to find a way to pay the bills despite not earning 150k/year first year out. There is more to life than money for many people.

The only reason I can think of for not doing this is if you think you will get just as good an education for free a little further down the list. But I am not convinced this is the case.

If you only want biglaw, then T30 is a dicey decision, but that is true no because of the cost of the place.

nycparalegal
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Re: When is a law school no longer worth sticker?

Postby nycparalegal » Tue Jan 12, 2010 1:39 pm

Desert Fox wrote:I'm of the opinion that going to a lower ranked school at half tuition is often a much worse risk than going to a t14 at full tuition, especially in this economy.

100K in debt for and needing to be top 10% at Forham and UIUC, or 200k needing to be top 40% at NU or Cornell.

A 90% chance you are going to be making 50K in an expensive area, with 100K in debt is a really terrible bet.


What about less than 30k of debt from going to a state school, at half tuition?




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