U of Chicago Vs. Berkeley

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lawyer879
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Re: U of Chicago Vs. Berkeley

Postby lawyer879 » Sun Jan 10, 2010 8:17 pm

Not to turn the topic from hippies.

But do you believe Berkeley being in the same Federal Circuit (Ninth Circuit) as Montana/Idaho give it any more portability to those places?

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The Brainalist
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Re: U of Chicago Vs. Berkeley

Postby The Brainalist » Sun Jan 10, 2010 8:19 pm

lawyer879 wrote:Not to turn the topic from hippies.

But do you believe Berkeley being in the same Federal Circuit (Ninth Circuit) as Montana/Idaho give it any more portability to those places?



I would think the opposite. To turn the topic back to hippies, I'd venture to guess that Chicago does better in the bible belt because of its conservative reputation.

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ihatelaw
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Re: U of Chicago Vs. Berkeley

Postby ihatelaw » Sun Jan 10, 2010 8:53 pm

lawyer879 wrote:Not to turn the topic from hippies.

But do you believe Berkeley being in the same Federal Circuit (Ninth Circuit) as Montana/Idaho give it any more portability to those places?



the degree to which one school would have more portability in those areas is probably pretty minimal.

i think your decision doesn't really come down to job prospects as both schools will treat you really well for your purposes. im sure firms higher deeper into UChicago's class but thats practically irrelevant with the berkeley system. If you do median, you'll get your $160,000. whether you litigate or not is not really up to the school you go to but up to how you do, what firm you join, job/clerking experiences, etc.

i faced a similar decision last year plus a few other schools closer to home were in the mix. in the end i decided being close to home was more important than any boost I could get from going to UChicago. Weather, life style, students, etc are all surprisingly important when you have to spend 3 years in the same place. I'd visit the schools and pick which ever one you think would be the best place to live for 3 years. Or the one that is cheapest. Berkeley's in-state tuition isn't that much cheaper than out of state from what I can tell and you may be able to leverage that for a bit of money from Chicago.


edit: also, i should add that if you fear hippies, fear not. friends in berkeley claim that the law school is as hippie free as any other law school. which basically means youll find 1 or 2 hippies, but at most youll find people interested in PI. and for what its worth, i get the sense that Chicago's reputation covers up the fact that there are probably a small amount of hippies and hipsters there too.

lawyer879
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Re: U of Chicago Vs. Berkeley

Postby lawyer879 » Sun Jan 10, 2010 9:14 pm

ihatelaw.... Great post, thank you.

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los blancos
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Re: U of Chicago Vs. Berkeley

Postby los blancos » Sun Jan 10, 2010 9:50 pm

.
Last edited by los blancos on Sun Jan 10, 2010 9:51 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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los blancos
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Re: U of Chicago Vs. Berkeley

Postby los blancos » Sun Jan 10, 2010 9:50 pm

kittenmittons wrote:
boilercat wrote:
kittenmittons wrote:
lawyer879 wrote:

Great thread. Thank you.


Chicago is still TCR. Unless you want West Coast


Or a more relaxed environment. Or a different culture. Or you don't want to go to school in Hyde Park. Or you want PI. Or...


boilercat wrote:I just love Berkeley



And how does that discount the previous post? I was merely pointing out that I thought that the idea of a credited answer when choosing between the two is far-fetched. I don't see how my bias enters the equation.

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bilbobaggins
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Re: U of Chicago Vs. Berkeley

Postby bilbobaggins » Sun Jan 10, 2010 10:00 pm

im_blue wrote:If your major criterion is money and jobs, then the choice is clear: Chicago.


You also might fit in better at Chicago.

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im_blue
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Re: U of Chicago Vs. Berkeley

Postby im_blue » Sun Jan 10, 2010 10:02 pm

kurama20 wrote:
im_blue wrote:If your major criterion is money and jobs, then the choice is clear: Chicago.


Cmon really? I love Chicago and all, and I"m always taking shots at Boalt for having a somewhat inflated rep on this website, but the choice isn't clear cut. I don't think Ken had any problems pulling in the dollar dollar bills from Boalt.


I'm pretty sure you've argued before that "HYS > CC > lower T14."

Rumor elsewhere on TLS is that median at CC and top 25-33% at MVPB are getting offers.
Last edited by im_blue on Sun Jan 10, 2010 10:03 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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The Brainalist
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Re: U of Chicago Vs. Berkeley

Postby The Brainalist » Sun Jan 10, 2010 10:02 pm

boilercat wrote:
I don't see how my bias enters the equation.


I struggle with irony, myself. Can someone help me?

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los blancos
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Re: U of Chicago Vs. Berkeley

Postby los blancos » Sun Jan 10, 2010 10:37 pm

The Brainalist wrote:
boilercat wrote:
I don't see how my bias enters the equation.


I struggle with irony, myself. Can someone help me?



So it's unreasonable to argue that there are reasons other than West Coast placement why someone might prefer Berk?

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The Brainalist
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Re: U of Chicago Vs. Berkeley

Postby The Brainalist » Sun Jan 10, 2010 11:15 pm

boilercat wrote:
The Brainalist wrote:
boilercat wrote:
I don't see how my bias enters the equation.


I struggle with irony, myself. Can someone help me?



So it's unreasonable to argue that there are reasons other than West Coast placement why someone might prefer Berk?


I think the irony is that you are so blinded by your bias that you can't even see how your bias enters the equation. If only you weren't biased, then you could see your bias. Is that right? Or did that alanis morissette song screw me up?

Even your unprompted question, in addition to showing your unrelenting commitment to promoting berkeley irrespective of the task at hand, demonstrates the effect of your bias on the equation. You skip right over the first part of your equation. Your question has an inherent assumption/assertion buried in it. This is like those "Da Bears" guys on classic SNL. "MIke Ditka: Best in the world, or best in the universe?"; "Berkeley: Just preferable due to its unquestiable west-coast placement superiority or preferable due to its superiority in EVERYTHING?"

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los blancos
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Re: U of Chicago Vs. Berkeley

Postby los blancos » Mon Jan 11, 2010 12:48 am

The Brainalist wrote:
boilercat wrote:
The Brainalist wrote:
boilercat wrote:
I don't see how my bias enters the equation.


I struggle with irony, myself. Can someone help me?



So it's unreasonable to argue that there are reasons other than West Coast placement why someone might prefer Berk?


I think the irony is that you are so blinded by your bias that you can't even see how your bias enters the equation. If only you weren't biased, then you could see your bias. Is that right? Or did that alanis morissette song screw me up?

Even your unprompted question, in addition to showing your unrelenting commitment to promoting berkeley irrespective of the task at hand, demonstrates the effect of your bias on the equation. You skip right over the first part of your equation. Your question has an inherent assumption/assertion buried in it. This is like those "Da Bears" guys on classic SNL. "MIke Ditka: Best in the world, or best in the universe?"; "Berkeley: Just preferable due to its unquestiable west-coast placement superiority or preferable due to its superiority in EVERYTHING?"




Ok, perhaps the language I used wasn't clear. mea culpa

My intention in the "Or..." post was to give some reasons as to why someone could favor Berk over Chicago. I don't think the reasons I listed were particularly subjective, and so I don't see how bias would enter the equation there.


The only biased statement I made was that Chicago isn't the cut and dry credited response. I'm more than fine with someone disagreeing with me there.

legends159
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Re: U of Chicago Vs. Berkeley

Postby legends159 » Mon Jan 11, 2010 3:32 am

If you want a higher guarantee that you end up with some well paying job Chicago is better for the following reasons:

1. Chicago places better into NYC and NYC is the largest legal market.
2. Chicago has fewer students = fewer competition
3. Chicago's grading system is better than Boalt's HH/H/P ITE. Each decimal in GPA matters more in such a competitive legal market
4. Chicago has a reputation for biglaw. Boalt for public interest. I'm sure that will affect how firms conduct OCI and the questions they ask
5. Boalt may place better in California but SF market is not big and hella competitive, probably 2nd most competitive after DC
6. In-state tuition at Boalt doesn't mean that much anymore and who knows how much it will increase during your tenure there

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Veyron
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Re: U of Chicago Vs. Berkeley

Postby Veyron » Mon Jan 11, 2010 3:50 am

-
Last edited by Veyron on Mon Jan 11, 2010 8:14 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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You Gotta Have Faith
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Re: U of Chicago Vs. Berkeley

Postby You Gotta Have Faith » Mon Jan 11, 2010 3:54 am

1) Visit both before deciding.

2) Go where makes you happy :D

3) My personal commentary: I think Chicago is better established as a school, and tuition/COL will ultimately be about the same. But, both are strong schools. They are very different options, so really think this one through. If you want the West Coast, then go to Berkeley. If you want most other places, I think Chicago has a slight edge here.

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im_blue
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Re: U of Chicago Vs. Berkeley

Postby im_blue » Mon Jan 11, 2010 4:32 am

Veyron wrote:P.S. I have a friend from Berk. She says that the LS is full of gunner Asians and is not even close to as radical as the Berk stereotype would suggest.


Boalt is only 16% Asian.

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bilbobaggins
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Re: U of Chicago Vs. Berkeley

Postby bilbobaggins » Mon Jan 11, 2010 12:59 pm

1. The law school isn't full of "gunner asians."
2. I know a fair amount of kids who chose B over S/H, Columbia, NYU and Chicago.
3. TLS generally overemphasizes small placement differences between top-tier schools. Go to the school where you think you'll do the best.
4. Don't trust what randoms say about current 2L placement on TLS for any school.

atitz
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Re: U of Chicago Vs. Berkeley

Postby atitz » Mon Jan 11, 2010 1:07 pm

im_blue wrote:
Veyron wrote:P.S. I have a friend from Berk. She says that the LS is full of gunner Asians and is not even close to as radical as the Berk stereotype would suggest.


Boalt is only 16% Asian.



That's nice because I think I'm heading to Boalt. :)

I'm Asian but I don't want to be around many Asians in a law school in America.




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