T14 for West Coast (LA)

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BioEBear2010
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Re: T14 for West Coast (LA)

Postby BioEBear2010 » Fri Jan 15, 2010 10:21 pm

Makes sense. Either way, H/C/S are all essentially the same for SCOTUS clerkship placement. I don't know what Kurama's talking about.

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crackberry
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Re: T14 for West Coast (LA)

Postby crackberry » Fri Jan 15, 2010 10:21 pm

BioEBear2010 wrote:Makes sense. Either way, H/C/S are all essentially the same for SCOTUS clerkship placement. I don't know what Kurama's talking about.

Yeah I hope he'll respond to my post.

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Tangerine Gleam
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Re: T14 for West Coast (LA)

Postby Tangerine Gleam » Fri Jan 15, 2010 10:59 pm

I'm going to impatiently re-pose the question I asked a mere page ago.

How would these rankings differ for someone who SPECIFICALLY wanted a Bay Area job (not necessarily BigLaw)?

I'm going to do my own very rough (and surely inaccurate) list rife with semi-arbitrary groupings I cannot support through any data OR anecdotes.

My 0L Wisdom


1. YHS
2. Boalt
3. Columbia/Chicago/Michigan
4. NYU/Penn/UVA/UCLA
5. NU/Duke/Georgetown/Cornell

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crackberry
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Re: T14 for West Coast (LA)

Postby crackberry » Fri Jan 15, 2010 11:06 pm

Tangerine Gleam wrote:I'm going to impatiently re-pose the question I asked a mere page ago.

How would these rankings differ for someone who SPECIFICALLY wanted a Bay Area job (not necessarily BigLaw)?

I'm going to do my own very rough (and surely inaccurate) list rife with semi-arbitrary groupings I cannot support through any data OR anecdotes.

My 0L Wisdom


1. YHS
2. Boalt
3. Columbia/Chicago
4. NYU/Penn/UVA/UCLA
5. Michigan/NU/Duke/Georgetown/Cornell

I think that's about right, though I would move Michigan up to Tier 3. UM grads do inexplicably well in California.

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Tangerine Gleam
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Re: T14 for West Coast (LA)

Postby Tangerine Gleam » Fri Jan 15, 2010 11:09 pm

I learn something new every day. Dully noted and corrected.

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Space_Cowboy
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Re: T14 for West Coast (LA)

Postby Space_Cowboy » Sat Jan 16, 2010 12:04 am

crackberry wrote:
Tangerine Gleam wrote:I'm going to impatiently re-pose the question I asked a mere page ago.

How would these rankings differ for someone who SPECIFICALLY wanted a Bay Area job (not necessarily BigLaw)?

I'm going to do my own very rough (and surely inaccurate) list rife with semi-arbitrary groupings I cannot support through any data OR anecdotes.

My 0L Wisdom


1. YHS
2. Boalt
3. Columbia/Chicago
4. NYU/Penn/UVA/UCLA
5. Michigan/NU/Duke/Georgetown/Cornell

I think that's about right, though I would move Michigan up to Tier 3. UM grads do inexplicably well in California.


+1. I think its an age thing. The partners at my firm think the world of Michigan. Associates, not so much. Not sure why.

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kurama20
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Re: T14 for West Coast (LA)

Postby kurama20 » Sat Jan 16, 2010 12:49 am

Space_Cowboy wrote:
crackberry wrote:
Tangerine Gleam wrote:I'm going to impatiently re-pose the question I asked a mere page ago.

How would these rankings differ for someone who SPECIFICALLY wanted a Bay Area job (not necessarily BigLaw)?

I'm going to do my own very rough (and surely inaccurate) list rife with semi-arbitrary groupings I cannot support through any data OR anecdotes.

My 0L Wisdom


1. YHS
2. Boalt
3. Columbia/Chicago
4. NYU/Penn/UVA/UCLA
5. Michigan/NU/Duke/Georgetown/Cornell

I think that's about right, though I would move Michigan up to Tier 3. UM grads do inexplicably well in California.


+1. I think its an age thing. The partners at my firm think the world of Michigan. Associates, not so much. Not sure why.



US News.

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crackberry
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Re: T14 for West Coast (LA)

Postby crackberry » Sat Jan 16, 2010 2:05 am

kurama20 wrote:US News.

Feel like responding to my post on the previous page, kurama?

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los blancos
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Re: T14 for West Coast (LA)

Postby los blancos » Sat Jan 16, 2010 5:57 am

crackberry wrote:
Tangerine Gleam wrote:I'm going to impatiently re-pose the question I asked a mere page ago.

How would these rankings differ for someone who SPECIFICALLY wanted a Bay Area job (not necessarily BigLaw)?

I'm going to do my own very rough (and surely inaccurate) list rife with semi-arbitrary groupings I cannot support through any data OR anecdotes.

My 0L Wisdom


1. YHS
2. Boalt
3. Columbia/Chicago
4. NYU/Penn/UVA/UCLA
5. Michigan/NU/Duke/Georgetown/Cornell

I think that's about right, though I would move Michigan up to Tier 3. UM grads do inexplicably well in California.


I think it has something to do with Mich being practically the only T10 without a major market within a 3 hour drive (Chicago = 3.5 :mrgreen: ), so it's more likely to disperse geographically. But I would love to know if there's another reason why West Coast firms seem to love it so much. Its CA placement is one reason why its so high on my list.

postitnotes
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Re: T14 for West Coast (LA)

Postby postitnotes » Sat Jan 16, 2010 6:21 am

Tangerine Gleam wrote:I'm going to impatiently re-pose the question I asked a mere page ago.

How would these rankings differ for someone who SPECIFICALLY wanted a Bay Area job (not necessarily BigLaw)?

I'm going to do my own very rough (and surely inaccurate) list rife with semi-arbitrary groupings I cannot support through any data OR anecdotes.

My 0L Wisdom


1. YHS
2. Boalt
3. Columbia/Chicago/Michigan
4. NYU/Penn/UVA/UCLA
5. NU/Duke/Georgetown/Cornell


This is probably more or less right, although I'd probably put NYU and Penn above UVA and UCLA, but below the ones ranked in 3.

atitz
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Re: T14 for West Coast (LA)

Postby atitz » Sat Jan 16, 2010 9:29 am

Space_Cowboy wrote:
crackberry wrote:
Tangerine Gleam wrote:I'm going to impatiently re-pose the question I asked a mere page ago.

How would these rankings differ for someone who SPECIFICALLY wanted a Bay Area job (not necessarily BigLaw)?

I'm going to do my own very rough (and surely inaccurate) list rife with semi-arbitrary groupings I cannot support through any data OR anecdotes.

My 0L Wisdom


1. YHS
2. Boalt
3. Columbia/Chicago
4. NYU/Penn/UVA/UCLA
5. Michigan/NU/Duke/Georgetown/Cornell

I think that's about right, though I would move Michigan up to Tier 3. UM grads do inexplicably well in California.


+1. I think its an age thing. The partners at my firm think the world of Michigan. Associates, not so much. Not sure why.



+ 1

though I also think Michigan had to be in group 3.

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Dinho
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Re: T14 for West Coast (LA)

Postby Dinho » Sun Jan 17, 2010 12:05 am

Tangerine Gleam wrote:I'm going to impatiently re-pose the question I asked a mere page ago.

How would these rankings differ for someone who SPECIFICALLY wanted a Bay Area job (not necessarily BigLaw)?

I'm going to do my own very rough (and surely inaccurate) list rife with semi-arbitrary groupings I cannot support through any data OR anecdotes.

My 0L Wisdom


1. YHS
2. Boalt
3. Columbia/Chicago/Michigan
4. NYU/Penn/UVA/UCLA
5. NU/Duke/Georgetown/Cornell


Anyone have any insight as to how much (if at all) this list would change if one wanted only BigLaw? Would UCLA's ranking change?

studylaw7
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Re: T14 for West Coast (LA)

Postby studylaw7 » Sun Jan 17, 2010 1:13 am

BioEBear2010 wrote:Makes sense. Either way, H/C/S are all essentially the same for SCOTUS clerkship placement. I don't know what Kurama's talking about.


hold on...chicago and stanford are equal to harvard for SCOTUS clerkship placement? I don't remember the data exactly but I recall Harvard was ahead of them by a good margin. H and Y are the best schools for getting SCOTUS clerkships. Y has a lower number in total but per capita it is higher than Harvard, if I recall correctly.

Edit: I see you're only referring to per capita. I don't know if relying too heavily on this is accurate. Relying solely on per capita is incorrect, just like relying solely on total numbers is incorrect. In general I think H and Y are the clear winners if you want to get a SCOTUS clerkship. Think of it this way, if a SCOTUS judge was comparing a H and a S/C grad and both had similar qualifications, who would the judge take? I think H would be the winner.

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crackberry
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Re: T14 for West Coast (LA)

Postby crackberry » Sun Jan 17, 2010 9:59 pm

While this:
studylaw7 wrote:Think of it this way, if a SCOTUS judge was comparing a H and a S/C grad and both had similar qualifications, who would the judge take? I think H would be the winner.
may be true, the original comment I took issue with referenced:
kurama20 wrote:Harvard's mind blowing gap on Stanford in SCOTUS clerkship and Justice production

It is a gross overstatement to claim that Harvard has a "mind blowing gap on Stanford in SCOTUS clerkships" when you look at the per capita numbers.

studylaw7
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Re: T14 for West Coast (LA)

Postby studylaw7 » Mon Jan 18, 2010 12:11 am

crackberry wrote:While this:
studylaw7 wrote:Think of it this way, if a SCOTUS judge was comparing a H and a S/C grad and both had similar qualifications, who would the judge take? I think H would be the winner.
may be true, the original comment I took issue with referenced:
kurama20 wrote:Harvard's mind blowing gap on Stanford in SCOTUS clerkship and Justice production

It is a gross overstatement to claim that Harvard has a "mind blowing gap on Stanford in SCOTUS clerkships" when you look at the per capita numbers.


I dunno if it's mind-blowing, but it definitely is significant. Remember that just because Harvard has a large class approximately 2.5 times that of Chicago, it doesn't necessarily mean that exactly 2.5 more students from HLS are applying for SCOTUS clerkships compared to Chicago. If this is the case, then dividing by per capita would certainly suggest a greater parity between hls and chicago/stanford in terms of chances of getting a SCOTUS clerkship. Also consider the fact that SCOTUS judges do not have to take as many HLS grads as they currently do. They could cap it at the same number as Chicago/Stanford if they wanted to, but they don't. They WANT to take those extra HLS grads. At the same time, I don't think they can take TOO many from HLS either because of size constraints - at some point there is not enough room for more clerks.

I wouldn't be surprised if they thought of it this way: a) take approx. 'A' number of folks from Chicago and Stanford; b) approx. double 'A' for HLS grads; c) add 'B' number of grads to 'A' to get number from Yale (although Yls, c, and s all have similar class sizes, there's no way in hell SCOTUS is going to take the same number of grads from yls as they do C and S, so they take extra from yls.) I dunno if anyone can deny that HLS' large size is not a great asset in terms of representation.

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crackberry
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Re: T14 for West Coast (LA)

Postby crackberry » Mon Jan 18, 2010 12:21 am

studylaw7 wrote:I dunno if it's mind-blowing, but it definitely is significant. Remember that just because Harvard has a large class approximately 2.5 times that of Chicago, it doesn't necessarily mean that exactly 2.5 more students from HLS are applying for SCOTUS clerkships compared to Chicago. If this is the case, then dividing by per capita would certainly suggest a greater parity between hls and chicago/stanford in terms of chances of getting a SCOTUS clerkship. Also consider the fact that SCOTUS judges do not have to take as many HLS grads as they currently do. They could cap it at the same number as Chicago/Stanford if they wanted to, but they don't. They WANT to take those extra HLS grads. At the same time, I don't think they can take TOO many from HLS either because of size constraints - at some point there is not enough room for more clerks.

I wouldn't be surprised if they thought of it this way: a) take approx. 'A' number of folks from Chicago and Stanford; b) approx. double 'A' for HLS grads; c) add 'B' number of grads to 'A' to get number from Yale (although Yls, c, and s all have similar class sizes, there's no way in hell SCOTUS is going to take the same number of grads from yls as they do C and S, so they take extra from yls.) I dunno if anyone can deny that HLS' large size is not a great asset in terms of representation.

Of course not. Some of what you wrote makes my head hurt, but I think if SLS or Chicago were the same size as HLS, the numbers would look much closer than they currently do.

studylaw7
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Re: T14 for West Coast (LA)

Postby studylaw7 » Mon Jan 18, 2010 12:29 am

crackberry wrote:
studylaw7 wrote:I dunno if it's mind-blowing, but it definitely is significant. Remember that just because Harvard has a large class approximately 2.5 times that of Chicago, it doesn't necessarily mean that exactly 2.5 more students from HLS are applying for SCOTUS clerkships compared to Chicago. If this is the case, then dividing by per capita would certainly suggest a greater parity between hls and chicago/stanford in terms of chances of getting a SCOTUS clerkship. Also consider the fact that SCOTUS judges do not have to take as many HLS grads as they currently do. They could cap it at the same number as Chicago/Stanford if they wanted to, but they don't. They WANT to take those extra HLS grads. At the same time, I don't think they can take TOO many from HLS either because of size constraints - at some point there is not enough room for more clerks.

I wouldn't be surprised if they thought of it this way: a) take approx. 'A' number of folks from Chicago and Stanford; b) approx. double 'A' for HLS grads; c) add 'B' number of grads to 'A' to get number from Yale (although Yls, c, and s all have similar class sizes, there's no way in hell SCOTUS is going to take the same number of grads from yls as they do C and S, so they take extra from yls.) I dunno if anyone can deny that HLS' large size is not a great asset in terms of representation.

Of course not. Some of what you wrote makes my head hurt, but I think if SLS or Chicago were the same size as HLS, the numbers would look much closer than they currently do.




actually you bring up a good point but I think it is the opposite. If SLS and Chicago had the same class size as HLS, HLS' per capita number would be much, much better in comparison to S/C. Why? Because many more SLS and Chicago grads are going to be turned down in favor of HLS given the size constraints of number of clerkships - this constraint is important. The greater preference for HLS grads is only going to be amplified. Although I can't provide definitive numbers to back this up, if I had one million to bet, I'd put it all on the HLS grad with similar quals as a C/S grad.

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crackberry
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Re: T14 for West Coast (LA)

Postby crackberry » Mon Jan 18, 2010 12:42 am

studylaw7 wrote:actually you bring up a good point but I think it is the opposite. If SLS and Chicago had the same class size as HLS, HLS' per capita number would be much, much better in comparison to S/C. Why? Because many more SLS and Chicago grads are going to be turned down in favor of HLS given the size constraints of number of clerkships - this constraint is important. The greater preference for HLS grads is only going to be amplified. Although I can't provide definitive numbers to back this up, if I had one million to bet, I'd put it all on the HLS grad with similar quals as a C/S grad.

I was referring to the overall # of SCOTUS clerks, not the per capita number. I think you're right, though, that there is a preference for HLS grads (if only because so many SCOTUS judges went to HLS).




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