T14 for West Coast (LA)

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TheWire
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T14 for West Coast (LA)

Postby TheWire » Thu Jan 07, 2010 8:34 pm

So, I've seen the Chicago and NY forms, and I think it's time to rank which schools will place best in LA/California. I've gotten into some great East Coast schools but I eventually want to be back in California so this is of great interest to me. I'll start it off:

1. Stanford/Yale
3. Harvard
4. Columbia/Boalt
6. University of Chicago/ NYU
8. UCLA
9. UPENN
10. USC
11. Michigan/Duke/Georgetown/UVA/Cornell/Northwestern

Correct my crap shoot!
Last edited by TheWire on Thu Jan 07, 2010 8:53 pm, edited 2 times in total.

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MC Southstar
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Re: T14 for West Coast (LA)

Postby MC Southstar » Thu Jan 07, 2010 8:37 pm

Umm, on what grounds did you put UPENN in between UCLA and USC and above the other rabble?

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Re: T14 for West Coast (LA)

Postby tumbleweed664 » Thu Jan 07, 2010 8:39 pm

I sure hope Michigan isn't that low.

EDIT:

Yale
Stanford/Harvard
Columbia
Chicago/Boalt
NYU
Michigan/UCLA/Penn
UVA/Duke/Cornell/Georgetown/USC

Maybe those last two lines could be collapsed, but the line order would still marginally matter.
Last edited by tumbleweed664 on Thu Jan 07, 2010 8:43 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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TheWire
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Re: T14 for West Coast (LA)

Postby TheWire » Thu Jan 07, 2010 8:42 pm

^^^^^

PPl here seem to LOVE ucla...they think it is essentially an ivy of the west coast. However UPENN is an ivy and in the pretentious field of law I thought that might give them a one up over usc...this is clearly and obviously based on little evidence...just my $.02. I'd love to hear yours tho...

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Re: T14 for West Coast (LA)

Postby RVP11 » Thu Jan 07, 2010 8:43 pm

Yale/Stanford
Harvard
Columbia/Chicago
Boalt
Penn/NYU/Michigan/UVA/Duke/Northwestern
UCLA/Cornell/GULC
USC

Even then, I'm hesitant about placing UCLA as an equal with Cornell/GULC. Might place worse than those two.

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TheWire
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Re: T14 for West Coast (LA)

Postby TheWire » Thu Jan 07, 2010 8:46 pm

JSUVA2012 wrote:Yale/Stanford
Harvard
Columbia/Chicago
Boalt
Penn/NYU/Michigan/UVA/Duke/Northwestern
UCLA/Cornell/GULC
USC

Even then, I'm hesitant about placing UCLA as an equal with Cornell/GULC. Might place worse than those two.


I really like this list...however, I would NOT discount UCLA's placement in the LA market. I ASSURE you from being here that ucla>cornell...ucla simply has much much better networking with the firms here...think texas in texas

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Re: T14 for West Coast (LA)

Postby kurama20 » Thu Jan 07, 2010 8:47 pm

1.Yale/Stanford/Harvard (Harvard's placement in Cali is at worst the same as Stanford's)
2.Columbia
2.Boalt
3.Chicago
4.NYU
4.Michigan
And then everyone else

These listed schools run Cali. I've looked into this a lot since it's a market I was heavily considering at one point.

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TheWire
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Re: T14 for West Coast (LA)

Postby TheWire » Thu Jan 07, 2010 8:48 pm

kurama20 wrote:1.Yale/Stanford/Harvard (Harvard's placement in Cali is at worst the same as Stanford's)
2.Columbia
2.Boalt
3.Chicago
4.NYU
4.Michigan
And then everyone else

These listed schools run Cali. I've looked into this a lot since it's a market I was heavily considering at one point.


I'm really interested in this...may i hear your perspective on how Michigan outplaces UCLA?

Thanks

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jonas586
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Re: T14 for West Coast (LA)

Postby jonas586 » Thu Jan 07, 2010 8:49 pm

TheWire wrote:So, I've seen the Chicago and NY forms, and I think it's time to rank which schools will place best in LA/California. I've gotten into some great East Coast schools but I eventually want to be back in California so this is of great interest to me. I'll start it off:

1. Stanford/Yale
3. Harvard
4. Columbia/Boalt
6. University of Chicago/ NYU
8. UCLA
9. UPENN
10. USC
11. Michigan/Duke/Georgetown/UVA/Cornell/Northwestern

Correct my crap shoot!

These rankings are whack
Image

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Re: T14 for West Coast (LA)

Postby RVP11 » Thu Jan 07, 2010 8:50 pm

Boalt outplacing Chicago? I'd say no. I don't think there's going to be a discernible difference between Penn, NYU, Michigan, UVA, Duke, and Northwestern, either.

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Re: T14 for West Coast (LA)

Postby RVP11 » Thu Jan 07, 2010 8:51 pm

TheWire wrote:
kurama20 wrote:1.Yale/Stanford/Harvard (Harvard's placement in Cali is at worst the same as Stanford's)
2.Columbia
2.Boalt
3.Chicago
4.NYU
4.Michigan
And then everyone else

These listed schools run Cali. I've looked into this a lot since it's a market I was heavily considering at one point.


I'm really interested in this...may i hear your perspective on how Michigan outplaces UCLA?

Thanks


Michigan's a T14. And I also placed them above UCLA, yet you said you really liked my list?

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nematoad
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Re: T14 for West Coast (LA)

Postby nematoad » Thu Jan 07, 2010 8:51 pm

not that it matters, but most people on the west coast who arent very familiar with the law have no clue that michigan and virginia are good law schools. but they arent the crowd that matter.

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TheWire
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Re: T14 for West Coast (LA)

Postby TheWire » Thu Jan 07, 2010 8:53 pm

TheWire wrote:So, I've seen the Chicago and NY forms, and I think it's time to rank which schools will place best in LA/California. I've gotten into some great East Coast schools but I eventually want to be back in California so this is of great interest to me. I'll start it off:

1. Stanford/Yale
3. Harvard
4. Columbia/Boalt
6. University of Chicago/ NYU
8. UCLA
9. UPENN
10. USC
11. Michigan/Duke/Georgetown/UVA/Cornell/Northwestern

Correct my crap shoot!


^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

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kurama20
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Re: T14 for West Coast (LA)

Postby kurama20 » Thu Jan 07, 2010 8:55 pm

JSUVA2012 wrote:Boalt outplacing Chicago? I'd say no. I don't think there's going to be a discernible difference between Penn, NYU, Michigan, UVA, Duke, and Northwestern, either.


I know so. You're heavily underestimating home town advantage. Boalt runs Cali after HYS (it's basically tied with Columbia out there). You can really see Boalt's Cali strength with the very selective lit boutiques in Cali (Irell, Keker, Munger)Chicago is barely behind them though. It's sort of akin to how Columbia and Chicago really don't do much better than UVA in DC. Part of the reason Boalt can pull the "no grade" system even though they aren't HYS is because of how they are viewed in the Cali market. From what I've seen/heard from people, Cali firms don't even see Boalt as being that far below Stanford.



TheWire wrote:
kurama20 wrote:1.Yale/Stanford/Harvard (Harvard's placement in Cali is at worst the same as Stanford's)
2.Columbia
2.Boalt
3.Chicago
4.NYU
4.Michigan
And then everyone else

These listed schools run Cali. I've looked into this a lot since it's a market I was heavily considering at one point.


I'm really interested in this...may i hear your perspective on how Michigan outplaces UCLA?

Thanks


It just does. Michigan has a very strong reputation/network in Cali. I think a lot of it has to do with many Michigan alums and attendees being from California. The only schools that really outdo Michigan in Cali are HYS, CC, and Boalt. However it's not just because they are top 14. Cornell will not be out placing UCLA and USC in SoCal.

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Re: T14 for West Coast (LA)

Postby NayBoer » Thu Jan 07, 2010 8:58 pm

I'd place a premium on being in California, both for CA xenophobia and for ease of getting to opportunities.

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Re: T14 for West Coast (LA)

Postby RVP11 » Thu Jan 07, 2010 9:02 pm

kurama20 wrote:
JSUVA2012 wrote:Boalt outplacing Chicago? I'd say no. I don't think there's going to be a discernible difference between Penn, NYU, Michigan, UVA, Duke, and Northwestern, either.


I know so. You're heavily underestimating home town advantage. Boalt runs Cali after HYS (it's basically tied with Columbia out there). You can really see Boalt's Cali strength with the very selective lit boutiques in Cali (Irell, Keker, Munger)Chicago is barely behind them though. It's sort of akin to how Columbia and Chicago really don't do much better than UVA in DC. Part of the reason Boalt can pull the "no grade" system even though they aren't HYS is because of how they are viewed in the Cali market. From what I've seen/heard from people, Cali firms don't even see Boalt as being that far below Stanford.


You're heavily overestimating your own knowledge, and underestimating self-selection. "Home town advantage" only goes so far - markets get flooded with their local school's grads, and firms like to maintain diversity in each shrinking SA class.

And yes, Columbia and Chicago do better than UVA just about everywhere. Including in DC.

Please talk to more 2Ls or 1Ls who are clued in to how OCI went this last fall. "Cross-coasters" and people who avoided the markets most of their classmates went for did quite well. Getting DC BigLaw from UVA was much harder than getting DC BigLaw from YHSCC.

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Re: T14 for West Coast (LA)

Postby TheWire » Thu Jan 07, 2010 9:03 pm

kurama20 wrote:
JSUVA2012 wrote:Boalt outplacing Chicago? I'd say no. I don't think there's going to be a discernible difference between Penn, NYU, Michigan, UVA, Duke, and Northwestern, either.


I know so. You're heavily underestimating home town advantage. Boalt runs Cali after HYS (it's basically tied with Columbia out there). You can really see Boalt's Cali strength with the very selective lit boutiques in Cali (Irell, Keker, Munger)Chicago is barely behind them though. It's sort of akin to how Columbia and Chicago really don't do much better than UVA in DC. Part of the reason Boalt can pull the "no grade" system even though they aren't HYS is because of how they are viewed in the Cali market. From what I've seen/heard from people, Cali firms don't even see Boalt as being that far below Stanford.



TheWire wrote:
kurama20 wrote:1.Yale/Stanford/Harvard (Harvard's placement in Cali is at worst the same as Stanford's)
2.Columbia
2.Boalt
3.Chicago
4.NYU
4.Michigan
And then everyone else

These listed schools run Cali. I've looked into this a lot since it's a market I was heavily considering at one point.


I'm really interested in this...may i hear your perspective on how Michigan outplaces UCLA?

Thanks


It just does. Michigan has a very strong reputation/network in Cali. I think a lot of it has to do with many Michigan alums and attendees being from California. The only schools that really outdo Michigan in Cali are HYS, CC, and Boalt. However it's not just because they are top 14. Cornell will not be out placing UCLA and USC in SoCal.


this is kind've the entire point i was trying to make...people are just a little critical of exact number rankings i gave...i appreciate your more informed opinion

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Re: T14 for West Coast (LA)

Postby markymark » Thu Jan 07, 2010 9:03 pm

kurama20 wrote:
JSUVA2012 wrote:Boalt outplacing Chicago? I'd say no. I don't think there's going to be a discernible difference between Penn, NYU, Michigan, UVA, Duke, and Northwestern, either.


I know so. You're heavily underestimating home town advantage. Boalt runs Cali after HYS (it's basically tied with Columbia out there). You can really see Boalt's Cali strength with the very selective lit boutiques in Cali (Irell, Keker, Munger)Chicago is barely behind them though. It's sort of akin to how Columbia and Chicago really don't do much better than UVA in DC. Part of the reason Boalt can pull the "no grade" system even though they aren't HYS is because of how they are viewed in the Cali market. From what I've seen/heard from people, Cali firms don't even see Boalt as being that far below Stanford.



TheWire wrote:
kurama20 wrote:1.Yale/Stanford/Harvard (Harvard's placement in Cali is at worst the same as Stanford's)
2.Columbia
2.Boalt
3.Chicago
4.NYU
4.Michigan
And then everyone else

These listed schools run Cali. I've looked into this a lot since it's a market I was heavily considering at one point.


I'm really interested in this...may i hear your perspective on how Michigan outplaces UCLA?

Thanks


It just does. Michigan has a very strong reputation/network in Cali. I think a lot of it has to do with many Michigan alums and attendees being from California. The only schools that really outdo Michigan in Cali are HYS, CC, and Boalt. However it's not just because they are top 14. Cornell will not be out placing UCLA and USC in SoCal.


I think this is generally wrong. I'd guess a UCLA median student would beat a median Cornell student with no CA ties. However, I'd much rather be a median Cornell student with excellent CA ties (grew up there/family, etc.) than a median UCLA student.

I think in this thread, as usual, people are confusing raw numbers and relative ease of getting a job.

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Re: T14 for West Coast (LA)

Postby RVP11 » Thu Jan 07, 2010 9:04 pm

markymark wrote:
I think this is generally wrong. I'd guess a UCLA median student would beat a median Cornell student with no CA ties. However, I'd much rather be a median Cornell student with excellent CA ties (grew up there/family, etc.) than a median UCLA student.

I think in this thread, as usual, people are confusing raw numbers and relative ease of getting a job.


+1

Any T14 + CA ties > UCLA/USC

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Re: T14 for West Coast (LA)

Postby postitnotes » Thu Jan 07, 2010 9:06 pm

JSUVA2012 wrote:Please talk to more 2Ls or 1Ls who are clued in to how OCI went this last fall. "Cross-coasters" and people who avoided the markets most of their classmates went for did quite well. Getting DC BigLaw from UVA was much harder than getting DC BigLaw from YHSCC.


I'm pretty sure that's just because DC is the most competitive primary market and YHSCC are more competitive schools. It doesn't suggest that "cross-coasting" is the thing now. California is easier to get than DC.

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TheWire
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Re: T14 for West Coast (LA)

Postby TheWire » Thu Jan 07, 2010 9:06 pm

JSUVA2012 wrote:
markymark wrote:
I think this is generally wrong. I'd guess a UCLA median student would beat a median Cornell student with no CA ties. However, I'd much rather be a median Cornell student with excellent CA ties (grew up there/family, etc.) than a median UCLA student.

I think in this thread, as usual, people are confusing raw numbers and relative ease of getting a job.


+1

Any T14 + CA ties > UCLA/USC


not even...if u ask around any firms in LA, theyre almost 1/2 ucla 1/2 usc..u kind've cant discount that...do u think WUSTL has no pull in St. Louis?

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Re: T14 for West Coast (LA)

Postby postitnotes » Thu Jan 07, 2010 9:07 pm

kurama20 wrote:1.Yale/Stanford/Harvard (Harvard's placement in Cali is at worst the same as Stanford's)
2.Columbia
2.Boalt
3.Chicago
4.NYU
4.Michigan
And then everyone else

These listed schools run Cali. I've looked into this a lot since it's a market I was heavily considering at one point.


I'd agree with this, although I think Chicago might be ranked higher than Boalt.

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Re: T14 for West Coast (LA)

Postby markymark » Thu Jan 07, 2010 9:07 pm

JSUVA2012 wrote:
kurama20 wrote:
JSUVA2012 wrote:Boalt outplacing Chicago? I'd say no. I don't think there's going to be a discernible difference between Penn, NYU, Michigan, UVA, Duke, and Northwestern, either.


I know so. You're heavily underestimating home town advantage. Boalt runs Cali after HYS (it's basically tied with Columbia out there). You can really see Boalt's Cali strength with the very selective lit boutiques in Cali (Irell, Keker, Munger)Chicago is barely behind them though. It's sort of akin to how Columbia and Chicago really don't do much better than UVA in DC. Part of the reason Boalt can pull the "no grade" system even though they aren't HYS is because of how they are viewed in the Cali market. From what I've seen/heard from people, Cali firms don't even see Boalt as being that far below Stanford.


You're heavily overestimating your own knowledge, and underestimating self-selection. "Home town advantage" only goes so far - markets get flooded with their local school's grads, and firms like to maintain diversity in each shrinking SA class.

And yes, Columbia and Chicago do better than UVA just about everywhere. Including in DC.

Please talk to more 2Ls or 1Ls who are clued in to how OCI went this last fall. "Cross-coasters" and people who avoided the markets most of their classmates went for did quite well. Getting DC BigLaw from UVA was much harder than getting DC BigLaw from YHSCC.


This post is 100% what I was thinking. Spot on analysis.

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Re: T14 for West Coast (LA)

Postby RVP11 » Thu Jan 07, 2010 9:08 pm

postitnotes wrote:
JSUVA2012 wrote:Please talk to more 2Ls or 1Ls who are clued in to how OCI went this last fall. "Cross-coasters" and people who avoided the markets most of their classmates went for did quite well. Getting DC BigLaw from UVA was much harder than getting DC BigLaw from YHSCC.


I'm pretty sure that's just because DC is the most competitive primary market and YHSCC are more competitive schools. It doesn't suggest that "cross-coasting" is the thing now. California is easier to get than DC.


I wasn't using the DC BigLaw thing as supporting evidence for "cross-coasting" or picking against a school's primary market. Sorry if the way I phrased that was confusing.

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RVP11
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Re: T14 for West Coast (LA)

Postby RVP11 » Thu Jan 07, 2010 9:09 pm

postitnotes wrote:
JSUVA2012 wrote:Please talk to more 2Ls or 1Ls who are clued in to how OCI went this last fall. "Cross-coasters" and people who avoided the markets most of their classmates went for did quite well. Getting DC BigLaw from UVA was much harder than getting DC BigLaw from YHSCC.


I'm pretty sure that's just because DC is the most competitive primary market and YHSCC are more competitive schools. It doesn't suggest that "cross-coasting" is the thing now. California is easier to get than DC.


Also, consider that probably half of each UVA class has some significant relation to DC and want to practice there. Can you honestly say the same about YHSCC? No.




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