Iowa ($$$$) vs. Notre Dame ($)

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Iowa(full) Vs Notre Dame(5k)

Iowa
57
65%
Notre Dame
31
35%
 
Total votes: 88

ToTransferOrNot
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Re: Iowa ($$$$) vs. Notre Dame ($)

Postby ToTransferOrNot » Tue Jan 05, 2010 10:23 pm

FWIW, I'm sure Notre Dame considers itself to be in a class above Iowa/MN/Ohio/IL/Wisconsin (and yes, despite the rankings differences, these schools are all pretty much interchangeable if you look at job placement, professor quality, etc.) Whether that is warranted or not is another thing. They do place slightly better than those schools, but the difference isn't huge.

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whuts4lunch
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Re: Iowa ($$$$) vs. Notre Dame ($)

Postby whuts4lunch » Tue Jan 05, 2010 10:31 pm

ToTransferOrNot wrote:If you go to the T2, go because they are offering you significant money, not because you think you're going to be smarter than your peers. LSAT isn't a particularly good indicator of 1L performance--my LSAT was below Wisconsin's median, for example.


I'm not suggesting that it isn't possible to outperform one's LSAT score; congratulations to you for doing so. However, the larger number of students we are talking about (300 classmates) as opposed to just you or one other single student, the stronger the LSAT indication should be. Granted, there will almost certainly be a few 155ish scorers that are T20 level law students, but wouldn't they be the exception? And if one proves to be only a median level T2 student, I imagine that same person would rank towards the bottom of the class in a T20. I figure any particular rank (apart from the very top or bottom) at a T20 would correspond to a somewhat higher rank at a T2 (in terms of what grades the same quality exams would correspond to). Since you believed OP wouldn't have trouble maintaining a particular rank due to his LSAT score, I was curious as to whether you agreed with this analysis as well.

The money would be a major contributing factor as well, but it wouldn't be the only factor.

Also OP, make sure Iowa doesn't stack sections with scholarship students, which forces lower ranks for scholarship students and guarantees that the school will not have to pay the entire scholarship amount.

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84Sunbird2000
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Re: Iowa ($$$$) vs. Notre Dame ($)

Postby 84Sunbird2000 » Tue Jan 05, 2010 10:31 pm

ToTransferOrNot wrote:FWIW, I'm sure Notre Dame considers itself to be in a class above Iowa/MN/Ohio/IL/Wisconsin (and yes, despite the rankings differences, these schools are all pretty much interchangeable if you look at job placement, professor quality, etc.) Whether that is warranted or not is another thing. They do place slightly better than those schools, but the difference isn't huge.


Yes, I'd agree that Notre Dame might not consider them to be peer schools, but they also might realize that a full ride or near-full ride to schools that are very nearly the same to the average applicant is a good reason to bump the scholarship.

ToTransferOrNot
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Re: Iowa ($$$$) vs. Notre Dame ($)

Postby ToTransferOrNot » Tue Jan 05, 2010 10:36 pm

whuts4lunch wrote:
ToTransferOrNot wrote:If you go to the T2, go because they are offering you significant money, not because you think you're going to be smarter than your peers. LSAT isn't a particularly good indicator of 1L performance--my LSAT was below Wisconsin's median, for example.


I'm not suggesting that it isn't possible to outperform one's LSAT score; congratulations to you for doing so. However, the larger number of students we are talking about (300 classmates) as opposed to just you or one other single student, the stronger the LSAT indication should be. Granted, there will almost certainly be a few 155ish scorers that are T20 level law students, but wouldn't they be the exception? And if one proves to be only a median level T2 student, I imagine that same person would rank towards the bottom of the class in a T20. I figure any particular rank (apart from the very top or bottom) at a T20 would correspond to a somewhat higher rank at a T2 (in terms of what grades the same quality exams would correspond to). Since you believed OP wouldn't have trouble maintaining a particular rank due to his LSAT score, I was curious as to whether you agreed with this analysis as well.

The money would be a major contributing factor as well, but it wouldn't be the only factor.

Also OP, make sure Iowa doesn't stack sections with scholarship students, which forces lower ranks for scholarship students and guarantees that the school will not have to pay the entire scholarship amount.


Er, I didn't agree that OP should assume he will be able to maintain his class rank, think you're confusing me with another poster.

To me, the fact that his scholarship requires top 1/3 is a major, major turnoff. It is salvaged, however, by the fact that even if he loses the scholarship after !l, he should be able to get in-state tuition for 2L and 3L. Iowa would still be considerably cheaper.

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whuts4lunch
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Re: Iowa ($$$$) vs. Notre Dame ($)

Postby whuts4lunch » Tue Jan 05, 2010 10:42 pm

yea, I confused you with another poster (ps494). sorry

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chadwick218
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Re: Iowa ($$$$) vs. Notre Dame ($)

Postby chadwick218 » Tue Jan 05, 2010 10:43 pm

Assuming that there is no way to negotiate the Top 1/3 requirement at Iowa, I vote ND.

keg411
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Re: Iowa ($$$$) vs. Notre Dame ($)

Postby keg411 » Wed Jan 06, 2010 1:07 am

chadwick218 wrote:Assuming that there is no way to negotiate the Top 1/3 requirement at Iowa, I vote ND.


+1

Mostly because if you lose your Iowa scholly, you'll be kicking yourself for not going to ND. Maybe ND won't move for Iowa, but see if Iowa will move for ND.

09042014
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Re: Iowa ($$$$) vs. Notre Dame ($)

Postby 09042014 » Wed Jan 06, 2010 1:30 am

ITE both are fucked with recruiting. ND might place a little better, but not 100K worth.

Both have similar classes so you are likely to be around the same class rank at both. If anything a higher at Iowa, but for these purposes I'll say they are even.

Top 10% - Chance at Chicago Biglaw at both schools, but with a lot less debt at Iowa

Top 33% - Decent prospects at smaller firms, local government jobs, ADA, etc- Iowa with little debt, ND with tons and no way to pay it back.

Below top 1/3- Not good job prospects, lose scholarship at Iowa. Advantage? Still Iowa, because you've spent little money. At this point OP can decide if Iowa is worth sticker or not. But its not like below below 1/3 at Norte Dame is any better.

No matter how the OP does in law school, they'll be better at Iowa.

To do list: Tell Iowa to remove the 1/3 requirement, that's TTT. Also try to negotiate with Notre Dame for more money.

ToTransferOrNot
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Re: Iowa ($$$$) vs. Notre Dame ($)

Postby ToTransferOrNot » Wed Jan 06, 2010 1:42 am

Desert Fox wrote:ITE both are fucked with recruiting. ND might place a little better, but not 100K worth.

Both have similar classes so you are likely to be around the same class rank at both. If anything a higher at Iowa, but for these purposes I'll say they are even.

Top 10% - Chance at Chicago Biglaw at both schools, but with a lot less debt at Iowa

Top 33% - Decent prospects at smaller firms, local government jobs, ADA, etc- Iowa with little debt, ND with tons and no way to pay it back.

Below top 1/3- Not good job prospects, lose scholarship at Iowa. Advantage? Still Iowa, because you've spent little money. At this point OP can decide if Iowa is worth sticker or not. But its not like below below 1/3 at Norte Dame is any better.

No matter how the OP does in law school, they'll be better at Iowa.

To do list: Tell Iowa to remove the 1/3 requirement, that's TTT. Also try to negotiate with Notre Dame for more money.


Something to keep in mind: if we're still "ITE" when the C/O 2013 is looking to do OCI, we're all fucked anyway;)

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Mr. Matlock
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Re: Iowa ($$$$) vs. Notre Dame ($)

Postby Mr. Matlock » Wed Jan 06, 2010 1:46 am

Desert Fox wrote:ITE both are fucked with recruiting. ND might place a little better, but not 100K worth.

Both have similar classes so you are likely to be around the same class rank at both. If anything a higher at Iowa, but for these purposes I'll say they are even.

Top 10% - Chance at Chicago Biglaw at both schools, but with a lot less debt at Iowa

Top 33% - Decent prospects at smaller firms, local government jobs, ADA, etc- Iowa with little debt, ND with tons and no way to pay it back.

Below top 1/3- Not good job prospects, lose scholarship at Iowa. Advantage? Still Iowa, because you've spent little money. At this point OP can decide if Iowa is worth sticker or not. But its not like below below 1/3 at Norte Dame is any better.

No matter how the OP does in law school, they'll be better at Iowa.

To do list: Tell Iowa to remove the 1/3 requirement, that's TTT. Also try to negotiate with Notre Dame for more money.

I read this and I wonder just how did the Nazi's lose the war?

09042014
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Re: Iowa ($$$$) vs. Notre Dame ($)

Postby 09042014 » Wed Jan 06, 2010 1:51 am

Mr. Matlock wrote:
Desert Fox wrote:ITE both are fucked with recruiting. ND might place a little better, but not 100K worth.

Both have similar classes so you are likely to be around the same class rank at both. If anything a higher at Iowa, but for these purposes I'll say they are even.

Top 10% - Chance at Chicago Biglaw at both schools, but with a lot less debt at Iowa

Top 33% - Decent prospects at smaller firms, local government jobs, ADA, etc- Iowa with little debt, ND with tons and no way to pay it back.

Below top 1/3- Not good job prospects, lose scholarship at Iowa. Advantage? Still Iowa, because you've spent little money. At this point OP can decide if Iowa is worth sticker or not. But its not like below below 1/3 at Norte Dame is any better.

No matter how the OP does in law school, they'll be better at Iowa.

To do list: Tell Iowa to remove the 1/3 requirement, that's TTT. Also try to negotiate with Notre Dame for more money.

I read this and I wonder just how did the Nazi's lose the war?


By not putting the Desert Fox in charge of fighting Russia.

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reasonable_man
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Re: Iowa ($$$$) vs. Notre Dame ($)

Postby reasonable_man » Wed Jan 06, 2010 1:57 am

sckon wrote:The only thing I worry about is the top 1/3rd of the class stipulation. How hard is that?


Much harder than many of the 0Ls on here think. Try to negotiate this stipulation if possible.

Moreover, if you can get ND to throw you a little more $ with that very generous 'good standing only' stipulation, I'd consider it.

As it stands though, ND is not worth that kind of money as compared to Iowa.

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84Sunbird2000
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Re: Iowa ($$$$) vs. Notre Dame ($)

Postby 84Sunbird2000 » Wed Jan 06, 2010 2:23 am

Desert Fox wrote:
Mr. Matlock wrote:I read this and I wonder just how did the Nazi's lose the war?


By [strike]not putting the Desert Fox in charge of[/strike] fighting Russia.


Fixed.

09042014
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Re: Iowa ($$$$) vs. Notre Dame ($)

Postby 09042014 » Wed Jan 06, 2010 2:24 am

kwhitegocubs wrote:
Desert Fox wrote:
Mr. Matlock wrote:I read this and I wonder just how did the Nazi's lose the war?


By [strike]not putting the Desert Fox in charge of[/strike] fighting Russia.


Fixed.


TITCR

Pearalegal
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Re: Iowa ($$$$) vs. Notre Dame ($)

Postby Pearalegal » Wed Jan 06, 2010 2:25 am

Desert Fox wrote:
kwhitegocubs wrote:
Desert Fox wrote:
Mr. Matlock wrote:I read this and I wonder just how did the Nazi's lose the war?


By [strike]not putting the Desert Fox in charge of[/strike] fighting Russia.


Fixed.


TITCR


Haha, just in case anyone wasn't paying attention in 9th grade history.

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Re: Iowa ($$$$) vs. Notre Dame ($)

Postby 09042014 » Wed Jan 06, 2010 2:29 am

Pearalegal wrote:
Haha, just in case anyone wasn't paying attention in 9th grade history.


IMO the biggest blunder was not destroying the British Expeditionary Force at Dunkirk and forcing Britain into peace. Germany could have then attacked Russia one on one and would have won.

Second worst mistake was attacking Russia so late in the Spring. If they had started earlier they would have had the key Russia cities by winter. During that first winter Russia regrouped while Germany froze to death.

Third was abandoning tactical bombing during the battle of britian and resorting to terror bombing.

IStillPlayVideoGames
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Re: Iowa ($$$$) vs. Notre Dame ($)

Postby IStillPlayVideoGames » Fri Jan 08, 2010 6:03 am

You can try to negotiate the top 1/3 requirement at Iowa. They have done it in the past. And don't forget that even if you lose the scholarship, you can easily get in-state tuition (and subsidized insurance) your second and third years by RAing.

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nealric
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Re: Iowa ($$$$) vs. Notre Dame ($)

Postby nealric » Fri Jan 08, 2010 12:20 pm


PS - my brother-in-law's finance's dad went to ND Law..... then became the CFO of a MAJOR health insurance company for 20+ years. They're hanging out in Italy at the moment. Don't be stupid... Notre Dame.


PPS: A close family member of mine went to Iowa. He is a partner at a MAJOR biglaw firm for 20+ years. He travels to Europe several times a year. Don't be stupid... Iowa.


But the top 1/3 thing is pretty bogus. Try to renegotiate for sure. Also, neither school is exactly a ticket to biglaw these days.

BobLoblaw24
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Re: Iowa ($$$$) vs. Notre Dame ($)

Postby BobLoblaw24 » Fri Jan 08, 2010 2:19 pm

I wouldn't choose Iowa over ND even if it was full ride v sticker. Iowa is a good school, but with ND you have the chance to go someplace special. UCLA was a better choice for me, but ND was impressive. IMO Iowa would be a very short sighted choice.

Mark71121
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Re: Iowa ($$$$) vs. Notre Dame ($)

Postby Mark71121 » Fri Jan 08, 2010 2:27 pm

honestly, both are garbage schools and not worth attending. if forced to pick i would say iowa only because of the extra $$$. you have a very limited chance at biglaw from either school so you might as well be the big fish in iowa's small pond.

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84Sunbird2000
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Re: Iowa ($$$$) vs. Notre Dame ($)

Postby 84Sunbird2000 » Fri Jan 08, 2010 2:28 pm

BobLoblaw24 wrote:I wouldn't choose Iowa over ND even if it was full ride v sticker. Iowa is a good school, but with ND you have the chance to go someplace special. UCLA was a better choice for me, but ND was impressive. IMO Iowa would be a very short sighted choice.


But the employment stats don't really back that up. I'm not saying ND doesn't have a bit more geographical reach, but in terms of just getting a good job (in a place with very low COL), Iowa is really on par with ND. I think ND sounds like a much better school, because its ND, but in this case I'd really suggest negotiating with Iowa or ND. If it was full-ride Iowa vs. sticked ND, Iowa would have 55 votes to about 2 for ND. At least I hope.

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84Sunbird2000
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Re: Iowa ($$$$) vs. Notre Dame ($)

Postby 84Sunbird2000 » Fri Jan 08, 2010 2:34 pm

Mark71121 wrote:honestly, both are garbage schools and not worth attending. if forced to pick i would say iowa only because of the extra $$$. you have a very limited chance at biglaw from either school so you might as well be the big fish in iowa's small pond.


What!!? Is this trolling? I know that there a lot of T14 or busts here (though less here than any of the other law sites), but these are both very good schools with solid job prospects that do well in their region. Plus, very limited ITE, but not historically. Iowa is usually 15-20%, and ND can be as much as 25% biglaw. That being said, Iowa does well in mid-size regional firms.

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NayBoer
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Re: Iowa ($$$$) vs. Notre Dame ($)

Postby NayBoer » Fri Jan 08, 2010 2:57 pm

Desert Fox wrote:By not putting the Desert Fox in charge of fighting Russia.
The Tundra Fox?

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Zapatero
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Re: Iowa ($$$$) vs. Notre Dame ($)

Postby Zapatero » Fri Jan 08, 2010 3:00 pm

ps494 wrote:
sckon wrote:The only thing I worry about is the top 1/3rd of the class stipulation. How hard is that?



Edit for reading comp fail.


If the LSAT is indicative of how you will perform in law school, then you would easily be in the top 1/3 since your LSAT score is easily in the top 1/4 for Iowa.


L.O.L.

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UFMatt
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Re: Iowa ($$$$) vs. Notre Dame ($)

Postby UFMatt » Fri Jan 08, 2010 3:10 pm

Mark71121 wrote:honestly, both are garbage schools and not worth attending. if forced to pick i would say iowa only because of the extra $$$. you have a very limited chance at biglaw from either school so you might as well be the big fish in iowa's small pond.


Go be unprofessional elsewhere, troll. You reek of insecurity. :roll:




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