BERKELEY vs NYU Forum

[Billy Blanks]

I got into both of my dream schools. Set on environmental law. Which one I attend will almost certainly be decided by where my SO matches for residency. We're pretty settled on Berkeley (that is, her nearby residency) as #1 for her rank list, which is due in the next day or two. Haven't done a campus visit at either one (thought the chances were too slim, esp to travel across the country). Obviously won't know about money, but interested in PI and both have great LRAP. Berk also appears to match T14 offers (except NU).

Am I crazy for not pushing her into a less desirable residency near NYC? Anyone think the CA mess is going to make Berk tank? Penn is a somewhat distant third, only because of lack of real enviro program.

Thanks

The CA government is a mess, the Californian economy itself is a different matter. CA government has funding problems because it is poorly run (ie ballot initiatives run amock, illegal immigrants using govt services, unable to tax real estate well etc), if the CA economy tanked the US itself might tank.

go to Berkeley

This. Don't worry about the mess in CA (and it is a mess), if CA goes under so will the federal government.

[sfdreaming09]

I got into both of my dream schools. Set on environmental law. Which one I attend will almost certainly be decided by where my SO matches for residency. We're pretty settled on Berkeley (that is, her nearby residency) as #1 for her rank list, which is due in the next day or two. Haven't done a campus visit at either one (thought the chances were too slim, esp to travel across the country). Obviously won't know about money, but interested in PI and both have great LRAP. Berk also appears to match T14 offers (except NU).

Am I crazy for not pushing her into a less desirable residency near NYC? Anyone think the CA mess is going to make Berk tank? Penn is a somewhat distant third, only because of lack of real enviro program.

Thanks

The CA government is a mess, the Californian economy itself is a different matter. CA government has funding problems because it is poorly run (ie ballot initiatives run amock, illegal immigrants using govt services, unable to tax real estate well, the CA Republican Party is a rogue gang of political terrorists, etc), if the CA economy tanked the US itself might tank.

go to Berkeley

Fixed.

[doomswitched]

I am talking about in-state tuition increases. There was no indication of the rise in that several years back, at least to the extent it did basically almost completely eradicate the notion of in-state tuition. They basically screwed people who made their decisions based on in-state tuition over scholarships at other schools. All I'm saying is that I fully expect them to continue to do it (and maybe even more so than they've projected), so you can't really accurately project your cost of attendance for IN-STATE. This applies to out-of-staters expecting to gain in-state status as well.

Again, this was entirely expected at the law school. As you seem unwilling to believe what I tell you, here is a 2007 memo from Dean Edley explaining that this would happen. --LinkRemoved--

I think he was referring to the extent of the raise. There are no hard tuition numbers in that link. There was no indication that in-state tuition would be increased to such a high amount, essentially eradicating the difference between out-of-state tuition and in-state tuition.

The plan was/is to resemble Michigan's tuition rate structure. If you look at both Michigan and Virginia, you will note that there is little difference between resident and nonresident tuition. I provided the link to indicate that the plan was in place. Without searching again, I think it was supposed to be a roughly 20% increase each year.

As for the tuition still being lower than peer schools, that's not true either. For example, this year's out-of-state and in-state fees are already higher than UVA's out-of-state fees and I can't see other schools increasing their tuition at a similarly rapid rate in the upcoming years.

I was assessed less than $37K this year. Do I pay more or less than UVA and Michigan nonresidents? Their residents?
UVA: http://www.law.virginia.edu/html/prospe ... uition.htm
Mich: http://www.law.umich.edu/newsandinfo/pages/facts.aspx

Nonresidents currently pay more than nonresidents at UVA and Michigan, so you are correct about that. The projections from the second link above indicate that nonresident tuition rates will be the average rate of private peer schools. Apparently that is more than what Michigan and UVA charge.

[irishman86]

I got into both of my dream schools. Set on environmental law. Which one I attend will almost certainly be decided by where my SO matches for residency. We're pretty settled on Berkeley (that is, her nearby residency) as #1 for her rank list, which is due in the next day or two. Haven't done a campus visit at either one (thought the chances were too slim, esp to travel across the country). Obviously won't know about money, but interested in PI and both have great LRAP. Berk also appears to match T14 offers (except NU).

Am I crazy for not pushing her into a less desirable residency near NYC? Anyone think the CA mess is going to make Berk tank? Penn is a somewhat distant third, only because of lack of real enviro program.

Thanks

The CA government is a mess, the Californian economy itself is a different matter. CA government has funding problems because it is poorly run (ie ballot initiatives run amock, illegal immigrants using govt services, unable to tax real estate well etc), if the CA economy tanked the US itself might tank.

go to Berkeley

This. Don't worry about the mess in CA (and it is a mess), if CA goes under so will the federal government.

California has one of the highest unemployment rates in the country, at 12.3%.

I'd go to NYU, but that's partly because the school has historically more stability and greater prestige. NYU has been consistently ranked in the top 6 whereas Berkeley has very recently been ranked 11 and 13.

[Borhas]

I got into both of my dream schools. Set on environmental law. Which one I attend will almost certainly be decided by where my SO matches for residency. We're pretty settled on Berkeley (that is, her nearby residency) as #1 for her rank list, which is due in the next day or two. Haven't done a campus visit at either one (thought the chances were too slim, esp to travel across the country). Obviously won't know about money, but interested in PI and both have great LRAP. Berk also appears to match T14 offers (except NU).

Am I crazy for not pushing her into a less desirable residency near NYC? Anyone think the CA mess is going to make Berk tank? Penn is a somewhat distant third, only because of lack of real enviro program.

Thanks

The CA government is a mess, the Californian economy itself is a different matter. CA government has funding problems because it is poorly run (ie ballot initiatives run amock, illegal immigrants using govt services, unable to tax real estate well, the CA Republican Party is a rogue gang of political terrorists, etc), if the CA economy tanked the US itself might tank.

go to Berkeley

Fixed.

if the CA democrats didn't gerrymander the state so badly there might be competitive elections instead of right wing loonies winning all the R districts

[crackberry]

if the CA democrats didn't gerrymander the state so badly there might be competitive elections instead of right wing loonies winning all the R districts

I'm about as liberal as they come, and yet I agree with this. That said, the whole damn country is gerrymandered. There are like 12 competitive House districts in the US.

[The Brainalist]

I was assessed less than $37K this year. Do I pay more or less than UVA and Michigan nonresidents? Their residents?
UVA: http://www.law.virginia.edu/html/prospe ... uition.htm
Mich: http://www.law.umich.edu/newsandinfo/pages/facts.aspx

Nonresidents currently pay more than nonresidents at UVA and Michigan, so you are correct about that. The projections from the second link above indicate that nonresident tuition rates will be the average rate of private peer schools. Apparently that is more than what Michigan and UVA charge.

I'm glad you guys are so upbeat about this. If I was born 8 years earlier, I could have gone to UCB for 12k a year, full instate tuition. If that death-knell sounds like a dinner-bell to you, more power to ya. I suppose I'm just incensed about the now dead principal of accessible public education that the UCs stood for. Now I don't see why I wouldn't get myself some of that private school prestige and networking. I'm not going to a UC for the same price as Harvard. Public should be more accessible to the........PUBLIC by way of affordability for in-staters. The UCs are now an abomination. End of story.

[kurama20]

California has one of the highest unemployment rates in the country, at 12.3%.

I'd go to NYU, but that's partly because the school has historically more stability and greater prestige. NYU has been consistently ranked in the top 6 whereas Berkeley has very recently been ranked 11 and 13.

Historically NYU and Boalt have had the same prestige. A school's overall US News rank may fluctuate madly over a couple of years, but it's real world prestige doesn't. Boalt and NYU have had the same lawyer/judge score for years. Checkout the following link to see Boalt and NYU's LJ assessment scores over the years--they have been deadlocked for some time. Choose the schools based on where you want to work, not by imaginary differences in prestige. Employers don't look more or less fondly on a Boalt grad as compared to an NYU grad. Your grades and WE will be what count.


http://www.top-law-schools.com/forums/v ... =5&t=83424

[articulably suspect]

thanks for the advice, everyone. we both do hope to end up in the east ultimately, but would love to live on the west coast for school/res and maybe a few years after. a few people (and not all boalt grads) have argued that it would actually help when looking for a job out east, something like it would distinguish me from the legions of grads from eastern schools, but i'm guessing this theory won't fare well on TLS. network is most important for the first job, correct? so if i worked on the west coast for a couple of years while she did her fellowship it might be easier to come east?

lol'd at FOLLOW THE DOCTOR. pretty much.

I don't see a documented interest in environmental law and a JD from Berkeley making finding a job back east in that field an impossible feat. I also think self selection has much to do with where the two schools place their graduates.

It sounds like you really want to, at the very least go to law school on the west coast, and possibly work in that region post ls for a couple of years. On top of that, your SO sounds she likes this option as well. If your ultimate goal is to head back east, how hard do you think it will be to find work a few years out of ls in that region? I don't think going to Berkeley will ruin your chances of finding work in that region a few years out. You may never want to leave the west coast. I vote Berkeley.

[jackgrf]

That's great. If I were to choose berkeley, as an in-state resident, considering financial aid offered, over a school like Columbia with a substantial scholarship because they end up costing the same or because Berkeley is cheaper, it is not going to comfort me that Berkeley unilaterally changes my cost of attendance to maintain status quo. I'd sure as hell be thinking I should have chose Columbia, NYU, Chicago, or really any other school that is objectively better, that guarantees your grant/scholarship package, and doesn't raise your tuition by more than 30% over two years.

I went to a UC for undergrad precisely because of the cost over some top-ranked private institutions, and I passed up on scholarships to some of those schools. Tuition has doubled since I started UG. You can't count on any cost of attendance calculation with the UC's, and anyone contemplating attending should expect to pay full private school tuition for 2L and 3L, plus about 10% each year.

i went to a uc for undergrad precisely for the same reason and I think most of our classmates did as well. the increasing in-state tuition is one reason why i'm leaning towards chicago for example over boalt at the moment despite being in-state. that and chicago was also a dream undergrad of mine.

[doomswitched]

I was assessed less than $37K this year. Do I pay more or less than UVA and Michigan nonresidents? Their residents?
UVA: http://www.law.virginia.edu/html/prospe ... uition.htm
Mich: http://www.law.umich.edu/newsandinfo/pages/facts.aspx

Nonresidents currently pay more than nonresidents at UVA and Michigan, so you are correct about that. The projections from the second link above indicate that nonresident tuition rates will be the average rate of private peer schools. Apparently that is more than what Michigan and UVA charge.

I'm glad you guys are so upbeat about this. If I was born 8 years earlier, I could have gone to UCB for 12k a year, full instate tuition. If that death-knell sounds like a dinner-bell to you, more power to ya. I suppose I'm just incensed about the now dead principal of accessible public education that the UCs stood for. Now I don't see why I wouldn't get myself some of that private school prestige and networking. I'm not going to a UC for the same price as Harvard. Public should be more accessible to the........PUBLIC by way of affordability for in-staters. The UCs are now an abomination. End of story.

I'm not upbeat about the privatization of public education, and I share your ending sentiments, especially at the undergraduate level.