penn state v mcgeorge v utah

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Which school should I go to?

Utah
33
58%
McGeorge (Pacific)
8
14%
Penn State
16
28%
 
Total votes: 57

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usuaggie
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penn state v mcgeorge v utah

Postby usuaggie » Wed Dec 30, 2009 1:06 am

I want to live in either Utah, Oregon or California. I go to undergrad in northern Utah and I love it there. I am Mormon and I really like the people. I grew up in Vegas, but I always wanted to live on the west coast to raise a family.

I haven't heard back from Penn State or Utah yet, but I had an offer of 15,000 a year from mcgeorge if I am in the top 33% of my class.

I realize Penn State is kind of randomly thrown in there, but it is the most complicated of the three. I grew up wanting to go there for undergrad. It was my dream/goal since I was 5 years old. I love Penn State. My grandpa died right before I started college, so I ended up not going because I needed to be closer to my family. Now I have a second chance though, but I know it would hurt my job chances in the west.

Utah is pretty cheap because I am a resident, and it is also the highest ranked of the schools I applied to. I want this poll to be done assuming that I get in to all three. The only one I am worried about at all is Utah.
My friends are an hour and a half from SLC, my family is 5 hrs (in vegas), and the rent is cheap. Really cheap.

What would you pick, and more importantly, why not the other two that you would NOT pick?

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CmonSD
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Re: penn state v mcgeorge v utah

Postby CmonSD » Wed Dec 30, 2009 12:57 pm

Have you visited McGeorge? I may be a bit biased because I attended Pacific for part of undergrad and hated it (I wanted to do the 6yr BA/JD that they offer but I wasn't impressed with the faculty or the quality of education by any means), but I would say apply to other schools in CA if the West Coast is where you want to be. The law school is in a bad area and other schools like USF and Santa Clara are similar and seem to have better employment prospects and stronger reputations. I would say go for Utah or Penn State. Again, I may be a bit biased but I wouldn't waste your money on McGeorge.

Oban
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Re: penn state v mcgeorge v utah

Postby Oban » Wed Dec 30, 2009 1:11 pm

also that top 33 percent scholly is easy to lose. If you end up there negotiate it to uncondidtional or at least median gpa.

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General Tso
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Re: penn state v mcgeorge v utah

Postby General Tso » Wed Dec 30, 2009 1:28 pm

Oban wrote:also that top 33 percent scholly is easy to lose. If you end up there negotiate it to uncondidtional or at least median gpa.


this...schools like McGeorge give over 1/2 their 1L's scholarships then take away about half of those by 2L year. The other two schools you are considering are far better than McGeorge.

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deadpanic
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Re: penn state v mcgeorge v utah

Postby deadpanic » Wed Dec 30, 2009 1:48 pm

This is too easy. Utah.

McGeorge - The school is simply not as impressive as Utah and probably won't place as good either. Also, keeping that scholarship is probably harder than you think.

Penn State - It is just a dream & probably more based on their tradition/football team. It is kind of like whenever everyone starts applying and is like "I'm applying to Miami and living in a Penthouse in South Beach, it's going to be schweeet!" It just isn't very logical to go there and return to Utah/the Mountain West.

What about BYU?

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wardboro
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Re: penn state v mcgeorge v utah

Postby wardboro » Wed Dec 30, 2009 9:42 pm

UU 2L here. If you get into Utah, you should go there, even if McGeorge or Penn State gave you full tuition. It's pretty affordable in-state and it's a good school. If you want to work in Utah, going to one of the local schools is a huge benefit in the job search. No application to UNLV? I think that is a much better safety (with a better market attached) than either McGeorge or PSU. If you have good numbers they may even throw some money your way. Good luck.

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usuaggie
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Re: penn state v mcgeorge v utah

Postby usuaggie » Wed Dec 30, 2009 10:01 pm

deadpanic wrote:This is too easy. Utah.

McGeorge - The school is simply not as impressive as Utah and probably won't place as good either. Also, keeping that scholarship is probably harder than you think.

Penn State - It is just a dream & probably more based on their tradition/football team. It is kind of like whenever everyone starts applying and is like "I'm applying to Miami and living in a Penthouse in South Beach, it's going to be schweeet!" It just isn't very logical to go there and return to Utah/the Mountain West.

What about BYU?



I HATE byu. It is hard to understand for non utahns, but the culture and false sense of entitlement their students show (generally) is enough to make most people hate them. a lot. among other things.

Penn state isn't just because of football. my grandpa went there. there is a classroom there named after me from his donations. I went there for tennis camp in high school. I really like penn state a lot.



UNLV- I did apply, but my family lives in vegas. I don't want to be around them, it adds to my stress/distracts me. I know that sounds harsh, and I really get along great with my family, but life is easier for me when I am at school. I would fall into a trap of not studying because my siblings were being loud or something. But, it is definitely a choice. Probably 5th after San Diego. I would go to USD over mcgeorge, but they probably won't offer me any money.

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usuaggie
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Re: penn state v mcgeorge v utah

Postby usuaggie » Wed Dec 30, 2009 10:26 pm

I know the BYU rant sounds extreme, and it is a good suggestion because of my religion and me liking Utah, so I don't want to take anything away from you putting those together. It is just almost like asking Terrell Pryor if he has considered Michigan for grad school.

Thanks for all of your input. I hope I get into the U so I can go there.

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XxSpyKEx
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Re: penn state v mcgeorge v utah

Postby XxSpyKEx » Thu Dec 31, 2009 2:27 am

I'd like one supersized McGeorge with fries.

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JetstoRJC
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Re: penn state v mcgeorge v utah

Postby JetstoRJC » Thu Dec 31, 2009 2:42 am

Utah should be an obvious choice here I would think. While I don't agree that BYU students generally have a false sense of "entitlement", I do agree that it has a different culture that some love and some hate (including many that are LDS). If you know in advance you don't like the Provo culture it would be a long three years there. This coming from a fellow USU student that understands the dynamics between the Utes and the Cougs.

Also, I agree with the idea of applying to UNLV or maybe even New Mexico. University of Idaho even perhaps? I have heard rumors of Boise State opening a law school a couple years down the road. I am in a similar situation in terms of wanting to end up in the Mountain West eventually so best of luck to you

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superflush
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Re: penn state v mcgeorge v utah

Postby superflush » Thu Dec 31, 2009 3:15 am

usuaggie wrote:I want to live in either Utah, Oregon or California. I go to undergrad in northern Utah and I love it there. I am Mormon and I really like the people. I grew up in Vegas, but I always wanted to live on the west coast to raise a family.

I haven't heard back from Penn State or Utah yet, but I had an offer of 15,000 a year from mcgeorge if I am in the top 33% of my class.

I realize Penn State is kind of randomly thrown in there, but it is the most complicated of the three. I grew up wanting to go there for undergrad. It was my dream/goal since I was 5 years old. I love Penn State. My grandpa died right before I started college, so I ended up not going because I needed to be closer to my family. Now I have a second chance though, but I know it would hurt my job chances in the west.

Utah is pretty cheap because I am a resident, and it is also the highest ranked of the schools I applied to. I want this poll to be done assuming that I get in to all three. The only one I am worried about at all is Utah.
My friends are an hour and a half from SLC, my family is 5 hrs (in vegas), and the rent is cheap. Really cheap.

What would you pick, and more importantly, why not the other two that you would NOT pick?


first off, huh?
Second, it won't make sense to go to Penn State for law school if you don't want to live in PA.
Utah has gotta be better than McGeorge for job prospects.

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usuaggie
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Re: penn state v mcgeorge v utah

Postby usuaggie » Thu Dec 31, 2009 4:33 am

what is the "huh?" for? Me wanting to live in one of those three states?

Penn State has some pretty national employment numbers, considering the ranking of the school, but I wouldn't be too unhappy if I ended up living in PA anyway.

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superflush
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Re: penn state v mcgeorge v utah

Postby superflush » Thu Dec 31, 2009 4:45 am

usuaggie wrote:what is the "huh?" for? Me wanting to live in one of those three states?

Penn State has some pretty national employment numbers, considering the ranking of the school, but I wouldn't be too unhappy if I ended up living in PA anyway.


The huh was just an off-hand remark, mainly because I think that those states would be very different lifestyle choices.

Penn State is not a national school. What makes you think that it is?

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usuaggie
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Re: penn state v mcgeorge v utah

Postby usuaggie » Thu Dec 31, 2009 5:40 am

I just like the west coast, and I like Utah because I go to school there and the people are awesome. Hate the weather though.

I know penn state isn't national, but they have a relatively high rate of grads who end up in states pretty far west of PA. I can't find the map since they redid their website though. I could at the very least find a job in Vegas if I graduated from PSU. I'm definitely leaning towards Utah right now, but if I don't get in and I have to pick between PSU or McGeorge, it will be tough.

yo!
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Re: penn state v mcgeorge v utah

Postby yo! » Thu Dec 31, 2009 12:41 pm

I'm facing a similar dilemma. I have an app in at McGeorge and hope to get close to a full ride, but I wouldn't mind going to a school like Utah or Lewis & Clark if they can offer me some kind of package to offset the tuition. Is it difficult to obtain residency in Utah after the first year? As far as the 33% requirement goes, if I can't meet it, I'm completely fucked regardless of the scholarship renewal.

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wardboro
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Re: penn state v mcgeorge v utah

Postby wardboro » Thu Dec 31, 2009 1:10 pm

Utah residency can be had after you get 40 credits at the law school. If you take 10 credits your first summer (summer tuition rates are in-state rates for everyone) then you can get residency starting your second year. To have a good shot at admission esp. if you are white male, you should have at least a 162 with a 3.5+ GPA and at least a 160 with a 3.8+ GPA. If you bring any meaningful ethnic diversity (including ORM (Asian) diversity) your chances at admission increase greatly.

As far as being "completely fucked" if you fall out of the top 1/3 at McGeorge, I don't know enough about the school to make that statement, but from what I understand coming out of McGeorge (especially ITE) you didn't really have a shot at BigLaw in the first place regardless of your class rank. I would be very reluctant to pay full price for any private (or expensive state) school knowing that you'll probably be making around 45k coming out if you do well. As long as you manage your expectations and understand that 45k is likely where you'll be, then you'll be fine.

Also, wrt Boise State--they are not opening a law school, instead U of I will be moving half of their student body to Boise (so about 75 students in Boise, 75 students in Moscow) to a law campus there. I guess in the end the effect is about the same.

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Re: penn state v mcgeorge v utah

Postby yo! » Thu Dec 31, 2009 1:15 pm

wardboro wrote:Utah residency can be had after you get 40 credits at the law school. If you take 10 credits your first summer (summer tuition rates are in-state rates for everyone) then you can get residency starting your second year. To have a good shot at admission esp. if you are white male, you should have at least a 162 with a 3.5+ GPA and at least a 160 with a 3.8+ GPA. If you bring any meaningful ethnic diversity (including ORM (Asian) diversity) your chances at admission increase greatly.

As far as being "completely fucked" if you fall out of the top 1/3 at McGeorge, I don't know enough about the school to make that statement, but from what I understand coming out of McGeorge (especially ITE) you didn't really have a shot at BigLaw in the first place regardless of your class rank. I would be very reluctant to pay full price for any private (or expensive state) school knowing that you'll probably be making around 45k coming out if you do well. As long as you manage your expectations and understand that 45k is likely where you'll be, then you'll be fine.


I am a white male with a 163/3.5 so I guess I am right on the borderline. What criteria do you need to meet in order to receive resident tuition? Do they expect you to stay in Utah upon graduation or anything like that? Do I have a chance in hell at a scholarship?

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wardboro
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Re: penn state v mcgeorge v utah

Postby wardboro » Thu Dec 31, 2009 1:21 pm

With a 163 and a 3.5 you'll get in--almost certainly. You won't get money--at least not much. They may give you a modest scholly (around 5K) for your first year only. Like I said, if you take 10 credits over the summer then you'll have 40 law credits under your belt and you can apply for resident tuition, and most people get it. You don't have to commit to stay in the state afterward or anything like that. In some ways, they are hoping that you go back to wherever you came from because Utah Law's out of state placement isn't that impressive. That's not to say that it's a bad school, it's just that most people who attend Utah Law self-select to stay in the state.

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usuaggie
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Re: penn state v mcgeorge v utah

Postby usuaggie » Wed Jan 06, 2010 7:13 am

superflush wrote:
usuaggie wrote:what is the "huh?" for? Me wanting to live in one of those three states?

Penn State has some pretty national employment numbers, considering the ranking of the school, but I wouldn't be too unhappy if I ended up living in PA anyway.


The huh was just an off-hand remark, mainly because I think that those states would be very different lifestyle choices.

Penn State is not a national school. What makes you think that it is?


found what i mentioned before, thought id post it on here
penn st employment. not huge numbers, but i cant imagine more than 8 percent wanted to go back west anyway

New England: 3%
Middle Atlantic: 59%
South: 25%
MidWest: 4%
Mountain: 3%
South West: 1%
Pacific Region: 5%

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superflush
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Re: penn state v mcgeorge v utah

Postby superflush » Wed Jan 06, 2010 7:30 am

usuaggie wrote:New England: 3%
Middle Atlantic: 59%
South: 25%
MidWest: 4%
Mountain: 3%
South West: 1%
Pacific Region: 5%


Is this from USNWR? This "South" percentage must be coming from DC, VA, & DE.

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superflush
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Re: penn state v mcgeorge v utah

Postby superflush » Wed Jan 06, 2010 7:34 am

usuaggie wrote:i cant imagine more than 8 percent wanted to go back west anyway


I'm sorry, I couldn't let this go ... because the middle of PA is so appealing to people?

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84Sunbird2000
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Re: penn state v mcgeorge v utah

Postby 84Sunbird2000 » Wed Jan 06, 2010 11:32 am

superflush wrote:
usuaggie wrote:i cant imagine more than 8 percent wanted to go back west anyway


I'm sorry, I couldn't let this go ... because the middle of PA is so appealing to people?


Actually, I think it is! :) The abundance of mountains and pristine forest tracts....ahhh.

But, to the OP, Penn State will not travel west unless someone reviewing apps makes the same mistake that a lot of laypeople make - Oh, PENN!

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CE2JD
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Re: penn state v mcgeorge v utah

Postby CE2JD » Wed Jan 06, 2010 12:08 pm

McGeorge law students = future McDonalds employees

So at least you'll get some free McNuggest working at McDonalds with your McLaw Degree from McGeorge.

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General Tso
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Re: penn state v mcgeorge v utah

Postby General Tso » Wed Jan 06, 2010 12:28 pm

CE2JD wrote:McGeorge law students = future McDonalds employees

So at least you'll get some free McNuggest working at McDonalds with your McLaw Degree from McGeorge.


haha nice

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king3780
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Re: penn state v mcgeorge v utah

Postby king3780 » Wed Jan 06, 2010 11:54 pm

OP, my vote is for Utah. Penn State is going to cost you way more, I think it'll be a culture shock for you (I'm LDS, I lived in Utah, moved to PA for 5 years) and while it has a good lay reputation, I don't think a JD from PSU will travel well.




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