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Re: Why does everyone want to work in a big market?
Posted: Thu Dec 31, 2009 1:16 pm
by Aeroplane
biggamejames wrote:keg411 wrote:There have been some rumblings that T14-ers have been having some difficulty in secondary markets because they are viewed as a flight-risk ITE (i.e. if they could get New York, they would leave that market in a second).
I don't know if it's because I was a "flight risk" or because smaller markets tend to hire based on nepotism and connections more, but I got interviews in NYC while utterly striking out in Kentucky, Charleston SC and Savannah GA, so I think you have a point.
For a lot of t-14ers (like me) it may just be easier to get a job in the huge markets than in smaller ones.
IME this is true ordinarily, BUT if you are a T14'er who can demonstrate conclusively that you are not a flight risk (e.g. your spouse is employed in the area, someone local & known to the firm vouches for you, etc), you will have a MUCH easier time getting a job in that small market than a local person or a T14'er trying to get a job in a major market.
Re: Why does everyone want to work in a big market?
Posted: Thu Dec 31, 2009 1:39 pm
by FunkyJD
DoubleChecks wrote:FunkyJD wrote:kurama20 wrote:In many ways the V100 is a pretty bad way to go about working at a firm that will pay you a lot of money. That's because most of those firms have near impossible partnership odds (the way you make a "disgusting amount of money") Whereas the litigation boutiques where you make huge amounts of money (Boies and Susman Godfrey for example) are not even on the v100. These firms also tend to be much more selective than the very NYC biased V100 list. Susman is in Texas and Boies has a lot of offices in Florida (though they are in DC, Cali, and NY as well).
Even associates at Susman and Boies pull in 350K+ a year on a regular basis (and keep in mind this is locations where cost of living is much lower than NYC, so they actually enjoy it). You have to make close to 1 million dollars in NYC to live like someone who is making about 300K in Atlanta. Bondurant in Atlanta is very very selective, but the have high partnership odds. Their associates often pull in 200K+ after bonuses. Do you know what that kind of money does for you in Atlanta? Honestly, unless you are a partner at a law firm/Ibank/consulting firm you aren't going to be living that large in NYC working in those industries. Basically, if you want to live large in NYC you better be a CEO , an athlete, an actor, or a multi platinum music artist.
Never say never, so who knows where I'll begin my legal career ... but having lived in Los Angeles, DC and TX, I sure know where I want to end up: Texas. It's not even close.
whoah, are you me? lol
To quote the Bible, "I know not about others, but as for me and my house: Hook 'em."
Re: Why does everyone want to work in a big market?
Posted: Thu Dec 31, 2009 1:48 pm
by FunkyJD
englawyer wrote:FunkyJD wrote:
Not too many lawyers in the upper echelons of the Forbes 400. You can double-check, the link is below, but I stopped counting around 50ish. If money were my primary motivation (as opposed to "a" motivation), I sure wouldn't go into law. You can get hella richer in other fields.
http://www.forbes.com/2009/03/10/50-ric ... slide.html
many of the people on that billionaires list are either from wealthy families or started their own company.
starting a company can make you rich, but there is also over a 90% chance you will be this guy:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WOOw2yWMSfk
Daaaaamn.
It's one thing to believe in yourself, but talk about crossing the line into self-delusion and driving off a cliff. I hope this Bulletball dude can invent the number to a therapist.
Re: Why does everyone want to work in a big market?
Posted: Thu Dec 31, 2009 2:23 pm
by rayiner
One more point on the whole cost of living, salary structure debate, esp in a post biglaw world. Salaries are lower overall in secondary markets, but not by enough to offset the huge cost of living differences. My friends started around 55-60k here (software engineers). Similar jobs in DC might've started at 60-65k. There is a huge difference between 65k in DC and 60k in Atlanta. Think about it: if a 2k/mo apartment in Arlington costs 1k/mo in Buckhead, that's a pre-tax difference of over 16k/yr. That's not even accounting for all the cost savings from going out, eating at restaurants, etc.
This is particularly pertinent because now that nobody is getting biglaw, arguing about NYC vesus Dalles bonus stuctures is kind of pointless. Fact is that if you get a decent firm job at all, you're likely looking at 70k at a small firm in NYC versus 60k at a small firm somewhere like Atlanta. There isn't even a question about the difference in purchasing power in the two scenarios. If you have little law school debt, a 60k job in Atlanta is very comfortable starting out. It's the equivalent of the mythical 90k midlaw job in NYC that people would be happy with.
Re: Why does everyone want to work in a big market?
Posted: Thu Dec 31, 2009 5:40 pm
by irishman86
rayiner wrote:On the cost of living front: I'm staying in my friend's condo in Atlanta right now. New, hardwood floors, marble counter tops in the kitchen and bathroom, stainless-steel everything. Tons of closet space. Half a dozen great* ethnic restaurants within a 5 minute walk, and about 10 minutes from downtown. The mortgage payment on the place is less than half what you'd pay in rent on a comparable place where I live in Chicago.
I know certain people who would be lost without being able to get to the Met in a few minutes. However, for your typical corporate drone, a place like this has a strong draw. When you're putting in 70 hour workweeks, you don't have much time to take in the local culture, but the little conveniences in life become so nice...
*) And cheap... The mexican place we went to last night was a bit expensive, $10 for an entree!
I agree with this, but wanted to say that Chicago is super cheap compared to most big cities! I think it has the lowest COL out of any primary market city.
Re: Why does everyone want to work in a big market?
Posted: Thu Dec 31, 2009 5:41 pm
by irishman86
Lxw wrote:boilercat wrote:Borhas wrote:what's an appealing aspect about LA?
Oh, I don't know. The beautiful weather year-round, the beaches, the nearby mountains...
Don't forget the smog!
Don't forget the horrible traffic, superficial people, etc. LA is the worst big city EVAR. Worst QOL. I think boilercat is not from California though, so he might not realize this...yet.
Re: Why does everyone want to work in a big market?
Posted: Thu Dec 31, 2009 5:57 pm
by sfdreaming09
ummmmmmmm because big markerts are located in big cities and big cities are fun? duh?!
Re: Why does everyone want to work in a big market?
Posted: Thu Jan 07, 2010 12:24 pm
by jackgrf
after spending quite a bit of time in the south (think the upper region - virginia, etc.), i gotta say that the south geographically is pretty nice looking, but the people are really the biggest rednecks out of any region in the us and it's also by far the most obese region. i saw only a handful of people who were of healthy weight when i was there. the culture is definitely the most distinct out of all the regions in america too. i feel that when you migrate from the west to the midwest to the northeast, it doesn't feel that different, but when you migrate to the south, culturally it feels very different.
Re: Why does everyone want to work in a big market?
Posted: Thu Jan 07, 2010 12:29 pm
by MC Southstar
You know.. if you don't want to work in an oversaturated market like everyone else, you should actually be happy that you are actually willing to go elsewhere, where there will be less competition. Why would you try to convince other people that their big city dreams are unjustified? It seems counterproductive and needlessly adversarial.