I didn't read this whole thread, but I think the legal work is best in major markets. Mid-markets just don't have as sexy as work and the client list suffers big time. Not that document review is sexy at all, but major market big law is just another gold star, you know?

PK makes what is probably TCR.

That being said, I have to say that the inclusion of DC in the list confuses me. Why would anyone want to live in DC? The traffic is much worse than Atlanta, the cost of living is almost as much as NYC, and in terms of things to do, it's in league with other cities of it's size: Boston, Atlanta, etc. Nothing like NYC or Chicago or LA. The weather isn't great and the people are self-involved and withdrawn. Everybody is either a lawyer, consultant, or politician. Really, it has no redeeming qualities - I just don't get he attraction...

Power, perhaps?

I find this amusing because Houston is a bigger city than DC and Boston. Houston is at 160k for biglaw.

The reason you go to a large city like NYC is because NYC firms don't care where you are from. It's nigh impossible to get a biglaw job in Texas without ties. Even with ties, it's easier to get a random NYC biglaw job than one in the smaller cities mentioned.

Personally, I think it's way worse than Atlanta or Boston in terms of culture and things to do (unless you just swoon for museums). But some people love being near all those politicos. An acquaintance who went to GWU used to ramble on about how cool it was to have CSPAN be like the local news, but I never got it.

Less competition for other cities, let them have DC.

Amen. I do like the climate, and the very, very clean subway. But that's hardly enough to justify all the hubub.

+1

I can see having an attraction to DC if you like politics... but I don't.

If you want to work for federal regulatory agencies or do firm work dealing with regulatory agencies, DC is the place to be. A lot of DC firms also have practice groups that do legislative work or government contracts. There's also a fair amount of interesting public interest work based out of DC.

I think there are more people on here into secondary markets than one might think, but we might be less visible. When it comes to smaller (tertiary?) markets like mine (i.e. significantly smaller than Atlanta, SF, Seattle or other commonly discussed "secondary" markets), I think there are very few posters on here who can offer any useful info, and probably none who could offer better info than I can gather on my own IRL.

rand, care to elaborate? im actually quite interested in where you were headed w/ this comment (tho it doesnt directly pertain to this topic thread)

the better question is what is actually appealing about LA

+1, and if you get laid off, there are a lot more legal job opportunities in NYC than in any other city

Because these cities are much more exciting to live in? It all boils down to preference, but I moved down to Florida from Chicago and the cities down here just don't compare, whether it's Tampa, Orlando or Miami. There's just not as many neighborhoods filled with young, highly-educated people that have unique and/or interesting bars, clubs, architecture, parks, etc. Downtown Orlando is okay, Ybor is awesome, Soho is good, Downtown St. Pete is decent, South Beach is awesome, I haven't been to Brickell yet, but I hear it good things, etc. But Chicago in and of itself has twice as many of these kinds of action-packed, young, educated nieghborhoods than the entire state of Florida. Wicker Park/Bucktown, Ukrainian Village, Lakeview, Wrigleyville, Lincoln Park, Logan Square, Old Town, Boys Town (if you're a gay male), Andersonville (if you're a gay female), the Weed Street area, the Gold Coast, plus a lot of other areas that are just as awesome for slightly older folks. The local music scene in Chicago is far better, and the public transportation is truly awesome. You really don't even need to own a car. I've only been to NYC once, but it seems just like Chicago, only twice as much of the above. Florida's cities just aren't as cool (and neither is Atlanta, for that matter). They're planned in a haphazard, sprawling manner, the public transportation absolutely sucks, the schools are not as good, the upper-middle class are secluded in boring gated communities, there's little to no mixed zoning, there's a ton of old people and retirees, there's an unusual amount of toll roads, there's still a lot of rednecks, etc.

There's two things down here that are better: lower taxes and the beaches, and if you live down here the whole year, the weather is overrated. Yes, it is relatively better November through February and awesome March through May, but try living through 135 consecutive 95 degree, 75% humidity days from June to Mid-October. It's not all that much better than a Midwestern winter, especially after you take a look at your A/C bill.

Anyway, that's just my opinion. As a single, well-educated, still kind of young male, I'm simply looking for a different atmosphere in which to live. If I was married and planned to start a family, markets outside SF, NYC and Chicago would probably interest me less (although not much less). I could see how some people who aren't interested in being socialites could differ dramatically, but I think my type are the kind most likely to want to go to law school.

Not too many lawyers in the upper echelons of the Forbes 400. You can double-check, the link is below, but I stopped counting around 50ish. If money were my primary motivation (as opposed to "a" motivation), I sure wouldn't go into law. You can get hella richer in other fields.

http://www.forbes.com/2009/03/10/50-ric ... slide.html



Never say never, so who knows where I'll begin my legal career ... but having lived in Los Angeles, DC and TX, I sure know where I want to end up: Texas. It's not even close.

whoah, are you me? lol

many of the people on that billionaires list are either from wealthy families or started their own company.

starting a company can make you rich, but there is also over a 90% chance you will be this guy:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WOOw2yWMSfk

law is one of the fields where if you attend the right school, you can reasonably count on making over $200k. certainly not forbes 400 or anything like that, but for many people, that is a ton of dough.

also, law provides one of the strongest foundations for entrepreneurship, if that's really your thing (see this: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Michael_Arrington). a large aspect of business is connections and credibility, and a JD provides the credibility and a large law firm provides connections.

I'd heard this about Texas but I've found it's not entirely true....at least in my ONE experience. I interviewed with a Texas firm that eventually offered me (for their NYC office) and just because I said I'd heard Austin was cool the hiring partner from that office who was there for my screening interview asked if I wanted to check it out. That's not to say they necessarily would have offered me for that office but the guy was willing to give me a callback there.

One thing I liked about that firm was they were very straight up. The screening interviewer told me I would be getting a callback and at my callback I was told I would get an offer. That didn't happen anywhere else. Maybe it's a TX thing? Who knows....it might be specific to that firm. It was refreshing though.

Well, it does tie in pretty directly. I mean that in the NYC market there is a different pay scale from other cities. In a market like Houston a lot of firms start at 160k, but will be left behind when the NYC sixth year associate is making 250k. I was just saying salary disparity grows in a way that nobody seemed to be paying attention to. Not saying that this makes a material difference, but it is worth considering.

Didn't read the entire thread, but I'll offer my thoughts.

1) Amenities - Depending on your preferences, a bigger market can offer more or different amenities than a smaller market. Someone who prefers public transit to driving will choose NYC over Durham, NC nine times out of ten.

2) Lateral Mobility - This theory falls in line with urban and regional economics. Businesses benefit from being in close proximity to other businesses in the same field. (McDonald's benefits from being close to a burger king because they will attract mutual traffic). For many of the same reasons, businesses benefit from being in close proximity to other businesses that they work with or complement. (A gym benefits from being in close proximity to a health food store and vice-versa). In that same vein, generally business benefit from maintaining their corporate headquarters in similar areas as well (big deals get done faster) less travel costs etc. This means that there will be a number of people with a similar knowledge base and similar skill sets, working in close proximity with one another. Their kids will go to similar schools, they'll frequent the same gym, etc. Naturally, these people will begin to engage with one another outside of the workplace. When this happens, the knowledge of opportunities beyond their individual jobs expands tremendously. With such knowledge, opportunity, and contact people can move laterally much easier in a large market, than they could in a smaller market. All of this means that individual firms have much less power over an individual employee, meaning more money and more opportunity for you, and less control for your boss.

A shining example of this kind of mobility can be found in the tech firms of silicon valley.

The massive tax differential and COL difference more than makes up for it though. Also one thing that people seem to forget to mention on here is the "up or out" policy---which is much more prevalent in NYC than it is in secondary markets. Those high 6th year NYC salaries you mention are often never reached by most hires, they are asked to leave before they even have a chance to get them.

Very true. Things I appreciated; it just seemed a little disingenuous to completely disregard the difference in salary once one moves 'up'.

I don't think it's hard to get TX offers at all without ties there, if you're talking about Houston and maybe Dallas. Austin, on the other hand, is super hard if you're not doing IP. Trust me, I tried! Got one measly callback there and no offers. (And I did well in other markets, so it's not like I totally suck.)

On the cost of living front: I'm staying in my friend's condo in Atlanta right now. New, hardwood floors, marble counter tops in the kitchen and bathroom, stainless-steel everything. Tons of closet space. Half a dozen great* ethnic restaurants within a 5 minute walk, and about 10 minutes from downtown. The mortgage payment on the place is less than half what you'd pay in rent on a comparable place where I live in Chicago.

I know certain people who would be lost without being able to get to the Met in a few minutes. However, for your typical corporate drone, a place like this has a strong draw. When you're putting in 70 hour workweeks, you don't have much time to take in the local culture, but the little conveniences in life become so nice...

*) And cheap... The mexican place we went to last night was a bit expensive, $10 for an entree!

I don't know if it's because I was a "flight risk" or because smaller markets tend to hire based on nepotism and connections more, but I got interviews in NYC while utterly striking out in Kentucky, Charleston SC and Savannah GA, so I think you have a point. For a lot of t-14ers (like me) it may just be easier to get a job in the huge markets than in smaller ones.