Why does everyone want to work in a big market?

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dextermorgan
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Re: Why does everyone want to work in a big market?

Postby dextermorgan » Wed Dec 30, 2009 2:11 am

If I don't end up in DC, I'll go mid-market.

09042014
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Re: Why does everyone want to work in a big market?

Postby 09042014 » Wed Dec 30, 2009 2:12 am

bahama wrote:
Desert Fox wrote:
I mean I don't believe the bolded part about 300K in Atlanta = 1 million in NYC. That's bullshit.

I have no problem with the rest.


It may be a bit of exageration, but not much. $1 million plus for a one bedroom is not unusual in Manhattan. A big house in a nice suburb is a few hundred thousand in Atlanta, but a few million in NY. Taxes in NY are much higher. In NY you will pay an obscene amount for parking and insurance...

I know people who were making over 100k in NYC and still living in a small apt with roommates and no car. 100k in Atlanta is solidly upper middle class.


While housing is probably 2X-3x the cost in NYC, things like cars, education for children, food, goods, and other things aren't nearly that much more (though still expensive).

Also when you purchase a condo or house in NYC, that isn't all an expensive, much of it is building equity in an asset. You'll eat the interest, real estate tax, etc but the house will still be worth 4 million.

I bet 300K in Atlanta = 500K in NYC

09042014
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Re: Why does everyone want to work in a big market?

Postby 09042014 » Wed Dec 30, 2009 2:16 am

kurama20 wrote:
I mean I don't believe the bolded part about 300K in Atlanta = 1 million in NYC. That's bullshit.

I have no problem with the rest.


EDIT: I didn't consider taxes especially the 40% top marginal rate. In which case its actually probably a lot closer than I thought.



Look up what a 800K home is in Atlanta and then look that up in NYC. Look up what a $2500 a month apartment is in Atlanta and then look that up in NYC.

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Look at what a Maserati costs in Atlanta vs NYC. Its about the same. Someone who is making a million a year isn't spending most of their income on housing. So while 300K might equal 1 million in real estate, they don't equal in cost of living.

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DoubleChecks
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Re: Why does everyone want to work in a big market?

Postby DoubleChecks » Wed Dec 30, 2009 2:18 am

haha i live in the south currently and my plan is to go to the NE for my law degree, but intern at firms in TX over the summers and get a job there (Dallas or Houston)

id rather make $140,000 in TX than $160,000 in NYC/Boston/DC/LA EASY

one of the biggest differences would certainly be real estate prices...something $200,000 here is like ~$1mil in LA/NYC

and while i dont know about atlanta, ive lived in cali before (only visited NYC)...and pretty much everything in TX is cheaper and bigger lol...not to mention real estate is usually a VERY large chunk of your spending

oh and no income tax here

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panadera
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Re: Why does everyone want to work in a big market?

Postby panadera » Wed Dec 30, 2009 2:24 am

DoubleChecks wrote:haha i live in the south currently and my plan is to go to the NE for my law degree, but intern at firms in TX over the summers and get a job there (Dallas or Houston)

id rather make $140,000 in TX than $160,000 in NYC/Boston/DC/LA EASY

one of the biggest differences would certainly be real estate prices...something $200,000 here is like ~$1mil in LA/NYC

and while i dont know about atlanta, ive lived in cali before (only visited NYC)...and pretty much everything in TX is cheaper and bigger lol...not to mention real estate is usually a VERY large chunk of your spending

oh and no income tax here


+1

I have the same plan in mind. But I want to stay close to the region to closer to the fam.

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kurama20
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Re: Why does everyone want to work in a big market?

Postby kurama20 » Wed Dec 30, 2009 2:32 am

Desert Fox wrote:
kurama20 wrote:
I mean I don't believe the bolded part about 300K in Atlanta = 1 million in NYC. That's bullshit.

I have no problem with the rest.


EDIT: I didn't consider taxes especially the 40% top marginal rate. In which case its actually probably a lot closer than I thought.



Look up what a 800K home is in Atlanta and then look that up in NYC. Look up what a $2500 a month apartment is in Atlanta and then look that up in NYC.

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Look at what a Maserati costs in Atlanta vs NYC. Its about the same. Someone who is making a million a year isn't spending most of their income on housing. So while 300K might equal 1 million in real estate, they don't equal in cost of living.[/quote]

The 1million thing was a bit of a joke (and actually to be honest, in today's world a person making 1 million a year is probably spending most of his income on housing, but that wasn't my point either). Wer're talking about the 145-160k that big law people will be making---basically what most of us on here are aiming for. 145K in Atlanta is simply otherworldy compared to 160K in NYC. If you hit partner in Atlanta with a 500K+ salary (which is apparently not nearly as hard to do as in a place like NYC) it gets to a point where you just have really have to reconsider the NYC thing. A 160K a year associate in NYC will be spending most of their money on housing.

09042014
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Re: Why does everyone want to work in a big market?

Postby 09042014 » Wed Dec 30, 2009 2:33 am

kurama20 wrote:
Desert Fox wrote:
kurama20 wrote:
I mean I don't believe the bolded part about 300K in Atlanta = 1 million in NYC. That's bullshit.

I have no problem with the rest.


EDIT: I didn't consider taxes especially the 40% top marginal rate. In which case its actually probably a lot closer than I thought.



Look up what a 800K home is in Atlanta and then look that up in NYC. Look up what a $2500 a month apartment is in Atlanta and then look that up in NYC.

--LinkRemoved--
--LinkRemoved--
--LinkRemoved--


Look at what a Maserati costs in Atlanta vs NYC. Its about the same. Someone who is making a million a year isn't spending most of their income on housing. So while 300K might equal 1 million in real estate, they don't equal in cost of living.


The 1million thing was a bit of a joke (and actually to be honest, in today's world a person making 1 million a year is probably spending most of his income on housing, but that wasn't my point either). Wer're talking about the 145-160k that big law people will be making---basically what most of us on here are aiming for. 145K in Atlanta is simply otherworldy compared to 160K in NYC. If you hit partner in Atlanta with a 500K+ salary (which is apparently not nearly as hard to do as in a place like NYC) it gets to a point where you just have really have to reconsider the NYC thing. A 160K a year associate in NYC will be spending most of their money on housing.[/quote]

Ok agreed.

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atlantalaw
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Re: Why does everyone want to work in a big market?

Postby atlantalaw » Wed Dec 30, 2009 2:41 am

i think atlanta is awesome...hence the name. i have no interest in gunning for nyc law.

Leeroy Jenkins
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Re: Why does everyone want to work in a big market?

Postby Leeroy Jenkins » Wed Dec 30, 2009 2:47 am

It may be cheaper to work in Atlanta from a cost of living perspective, but...you'd be living in Atlanta.
Last edited by Leeroy Jenkins on Wed Dec 30, 2009 2:50 am, edited 1 time in total.

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los blancos
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Re: Why does everyone want to work in a big market?

Postby los blancos » Wed Dec 30, 2009 2:49 am

I personally could care less but I do want to end up in CA and so will probably end up in SF or LA. Definitely wouln't mind SD or a more rural setting though as long as the job is good.



I have no desire to work in NYC or Boston. I'd rather TX or Chicago.

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DoubleChecks
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Re: Why does everyone want to work in a big market?

Postby DoubleChecks » Wed Dec 30, 2009 2:50 am

Lxw wrote:It may be cheaper to work in Atlanta from a cost of living perspective, but...you'd be working in Atlanta.


lol gets old

there are appealing aspects for LA/NYC, but also very unappealing aspects

Leeroy Jenkins
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Re: Why does everyone want to work in a big market?

Postby Leeroy Jenkins » Wed Dec 30, 2009 2:55 am

DoubleChecks wrote:
Lxw wrote:It may be cheaper to work in Atlanta from a cost of living perspective, but...you'd be working in Atlanta.
lol gets old
there are appealing aspects for LA/NYC, but also very unappealing aspects

How much worse can it be living in a city with the worst traffic in the whole country, where the primary mode of transportation is by car.

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Borhas
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Re: Why does everyone want to work in a big market?

Postby Borhas » Wed Dec 30, 2009 9:35 am

DoubleChecks wrote:
Lxw wrote:It may be cheaper to work in Atlanta from a cost of living perspective, but...you'd be working in Atlanta.


lol gets old

there are appealing aspects for LA/NYC, but also very unappealing aspects


what's an appealing aspect about LA?

Alexandria
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Re: Why does everyone want to work in a big market?

Postby Alexandria » Wed Dec 30, 2009 9:47 am

I agree about the cost-of-living appeal of secondary markets, but what ended up changing my mind during the 2L job hunt was that: 1. Atlanta (the main market where I interviewed) was hit particularly hard in the economic crisis... there were a lot of layoffs, and I didn't feel that any of the big Atlanta firms would be nearly as financially secure as the firm I ended up going to in DC, and 2. the work in DC is just a lot more diverse and interesting.

If you like Houston, it might not be a bad choice. I don't think Texas was hit as hard, and maybe the work is a little more interesting bc of the energy industry? But the liking Houston part is the problem.

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MC Southstar
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Re: Why does everyone want to work in a big market?

Postby MC Southstar » Wed Dec 30, 2009 10:11 am

Because I'm easily bored.

Housing prices aren't high for no reason, ya know. Although the recession has diminished demand in expensive cities, there's still plenty of people who care about QOL more than COL. Up to you what you think QOL is of course. For me, it's NYC.

I'm also open to SF, LA, SD, DC, Chicago.

I heard Texas is the place to be right now, but I still don't want to live in Texas.

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kurama20
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Re: Why does everyone want to work in a big market?

Postby kurama20 » Wed Dec 30, 2009 1:08 pm

shadowfrost000 wrote:Because I'm easily bored.

Housing prices aren't high for no reason, ya know. Although the recession has diminished demand in expensive cities, there's still plenty of people who care about QOL more than COL. Up to you what you think QOL is of course. For me, it's NYC.

I'm also open to SF, LA, SD, DC, Chicago.

I heard Texas is the place to be right now, but I still don't want to live in Texas.



lol who the hell said that "QOL" was something only available in NYC. Many secondary markets actually have a higher QOL. Besides, 90 percent of the stuff that NYC has that other cities don't, you won't be able to afford to do on even a big law salary. Not to mention the hellacious hours of NYC compared to other markets. Actually I do care about QOL more than COL, that is part of the reason why I don't want to live in NYC. When I'm paying $2500 a month for a 1 bedroom apartment where I can hear it every time my neighbor flushes his toilet, my QOL isn't too great. It also isn't too great when I'm somewhere where I can't even a car unless I pay $700 a month for parking. People just need to accept that there are different strokes for different folks. Not everyone is dying to live in NYC, as hard as it is for those on here who want to live there to believe.

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Space_Cowboy
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Re: Why does everyone want to work in a big market?

Postby Space_Cowboy » Wed Dec 30, 2009 1:38 pm

kurama20 wrote:
shadowfrost000 wrote:Because I'm easily bored.

Housing prices aren't high for no reason, ya know. Although the recession has diminished demand in expensive cities, there's still plenty of people who care about QOL more than COL. Up to you what you think QOL is of course. For me, it's NYC.

I'm also open to SF, LA, SD, DC, Chicago.

I heard Texas is the place to be right now, but I still don't want to live in Texas.



lol who the hell said that "QOL" was something only available in NYC. Many secondary markets actually have a higher QOL. Besides, 90 percent of the stuff that NYC has that other cities don't, you won't be able to afford to do on even a big law salary. Not to mention the hellacious hours of NYC compared to other markets. Actually I do care about QOL more than COL, that is part of the reason why I don't want to live in NYC. When I'm paying $2500 a month for a 1 bedroom apartment where I can hear it every time my neighbor flushes his toilet, my QOL isn't too great. It also isn't too great when I'm somewhere where I can't even a car unless I pay $700 a month for parking. People just need to accept that there are different strokes for different folks. Not everyone is dying to live in NYC, as hard as it is for those on here who want to live there to believe.


[strike]Newsflash: QoL is a matter of taste. I'm not sure arguing why someone should like blue when they happen to like red is going to get anywhere.

ps - I'd rather shoot myself than work in NYC, but I am willing to concede some people love the atmosphere there. Others hate LA, which I love.[/strike]

EDIT: It would have helped if I read the last sentence in your post. :D

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Re: Why does everyone want to work in a big market?

Postby Yimbeezy » Wed Dec 30, 2009 1:43 pm

kurama20 wrote:
shadowfrost000 wrote:Because I'm easily bored.

Housing prices aren't high for no reason, ya know. Although the recession has diminished demand in expensive cities, there's still plenty of people who care about QOL more than COL. Up to you what you think QOL is of course. For me, it's NYC.

I'm also open to SF, LA, SD, DC, Chicago.

I heard Texas is the place to be right now, but I still don't want to live in Texas.



lol who the hell said that "QOL" was something only available in NYC. Many secondary markets actually have a higher QOL. Besides, 90 percent of the stuff that NYC has that other cities don't, you won't be able to afford to do on even a big law salary. Not to mention the hellacious hours of NYC compared to other markets. Actually I do care about QOL more than COL, that is part of the reason why I don't want to live in NYC. When I'm paying $2500 a month for a 1 bedroom apartment where I can hear it every time my neighbor flushes his toilet, my QOL isn't too great. It also isn't too great when I'm somewhere where I can't even a car unless I pay $700 a month for parking. People just need to accept that there are different strokes for different folks. Not everyone is dying to live in NYC, as hard as it is for those on here who want to live there to believe.


Your strawman?

And to the heart of the thread: a lot of people want to live in big markets because, well, a lot of people want to live in the cities in which there are big markets. Preferences is preferences homeses.

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kurama20
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Re: Why does everyone want to work in a big market?

Postby kurama20 » Wed Dec 30, 2009 2:04 pm

Yimbeezy wrote:Your strawman?

And to the heart of the thread: a lot of people want to live in big markets because, well, a lot of people want to live in the cities in which there are big markets. Preferences is preferences homeses.


I would recommend not using terms you are unfamiliar with in an attempt to impress others with your intellect (though it is a common occurrence on this website). His bolded claim about "some people care about QOL and that's why these areas cost more" rests on the assumption that these areas are the only ones with a high QOL or they provide a higher one than lower cost areas. He does try to change his stance somewhat later on in the post though. I'm also not sure why you repeated that preference argument considering it has been said in about each of the last 3 posts.

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Rand M.
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Re: Why does everyone want to work in a big market?

Postby Rand M. » Wed Dec 30, 2009 2:07 pm

I don't think I have seen anyone mention the salary structure differences. Houston firms will often start you out at 160k, but will not have the same pay-scale as the NYC firms for years past the first. Full disclosure, I live in the south and realize that it is significantly cheaper. I just feel like the different scales beyond the first year have to be taken into account. By fourth and fifth year there is a greater difference in income than the initial 15k. That said I still love the south, but I think it is only fair to grant that to NYC.

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Space_Cowboy
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Re: Why does everyone want to work in a big market?

Postby Space_Cowboy » Wed Dec 30, 2009 2:08 pm

kurama20 wrote:
Yimbeezy wrote:Your strawman?

And to the heart of the thread: a lot of people want to live in big markets because, well, a lot of people want to live in the cities in which there are big markets. Preferences is preferences homeses.


I would recommend not using terms you are unfamiliar with in an attempt to impress others with your intellect (though it is a common occurrence on this website). His bolded claim about "some people care about QOL and that's why these areas cost more" rests on the assumption that these areas are the only ones with a high QOL or they provide a higher one than lower cost areas. He does try to change his stance somewhat later on in the post though. I'm also not sure why you repeated that preference argument considering it has been said in about each of the last 3 posts.


Was that necessary? Also, calling your first leap a strawman seems appropriate.

The original quote:

shadowfrost wrote:Housing prices aren't high for no reason, ya know. Although the recession has diminished demand in expensive cities, there's still plenty of people who care about QOL more than COL. Up to you what you think QOL is of course. For me, it's NYC.

I'm also open to SF, LA, SD, DC, Chicago.

I heard Texas is the place to be right now, but I still don't want to live in Texas.


Seems like the poster clearly acknowledged that QoL is a matter of personal preference and not the exclusive domain of CA/DC/NY.

antonin
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Re: Why does everyone want to work in a big market?

Postby antonin » Wed Dec 30, 2009 2:16 pm

Point of this thread?
Why people like to live in NY as lawyers. Well, even if we are to exclude all other factors (i like a townhouse in the middle of nowhere, i prefer a crappy apartment in of the world's most important cities), that's where most of the industry is located, that's where the most and best jobs are located. Same with banking and other NY based industries. This kind of like asking why do auto-workers live near Detroit, or why there are so many actors in LA?

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los blancos
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Re: Why does everyone want to work in a big market?

Postby los blancos » Wed Dec 30, 2009 2:30 pm

Borhas wrote:
DoubleChecks wrote:
Lxw wrote:It may be cheaper to work in Atlanta from a cost of living perspective, but...you'd be working in Atlanta.


lol gets old

there are appealing aspects for LA/NYC, but also very unappealing aspects


what's an appealing aspect about LA?


Oh, I don't know. The beautiful weather year-round, the beaches, the nearby mountains...

Leeroy Jenkins
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Re: Why does everyone want to work in a big market?

Postby Leeroy Jenkins » Wed Dec 30, 2009 2:44 pm

boilercat wrote:
Borhas wrote:what's an appealing aspect about LA?
Oh, I don't know. The beautiful weather year-round, the beaches, the nearby mountains...

Don't forget the smog!

Yimbeezy
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Re: Why does everyone want to work in a big market?

Postby Yimbeezy » Wed Dec 30, 2009 2:59 pm

Space_Cowboy wrote:
kurama20 wrote:
Yimbeezy wrote:Your strawman?

And to the heart of the thread: a lot of people want to live in big markets because, well, a lot of people want to live in the cities in which there are big markets. Preferences is preferences homeses.


I would recommend not using terms you are unfamiliar with in an attempt to impress others with your intellect (though it is a common occurrence on this website). His bolded claim about "some people care about QOL and that's why these areas cost more" rests on the assumption that these areas are the only ones with a high QOL or they provide a higher one than lower cost areas. He does try to change his stance somewhat later on in the post though. I'm also not sure why you repeated that preference argument considering it has been said in about each of the last 3 posts.


Was that necessary? Also, calling your first leap a strawman seems appropriate.

The original quote:

shadowfrost wrote:Housing prices aren't high for no reason, ya know. Although the recession has diminished demand in expensive cities, there's still plenty of people who care about QOL more than COL. Up to you what you think QOL is of course. For me, it's NYC.

I'm also open to SF, LA, SD, DC, Chicago.

I heard Texas is the place to be right now, but I still don't want to live in Texas.


Seems like the poster clearly acknowledged that QoL is a matter of personal preference and not the exclusive domain of CA/DC/NY.


+1




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