I have a question that may seem stupid, but I really don't understand.

Everyone on this site talks about NYC, LA, DC, Chicago, Boston, etc. as the big legal markets where "people make the most money" and where people need to work to pay off their debts from law school. I undertand that BigLaw starting salaries in these cities are around $160,000/year.

But if you worked in Miami, Houston, Atlanta, or another mid-range market making $140,000/year, wouldn't that actually be more disposable income takin into account that living costs are extremely high in NYC, DC, Cali, etc.?

So for money, wouldn't you actually want the highest paying firm in a secondary market? Maybe this reasoning is totally wrong. Please help me figure out why every law student seems to want to work in NYC or DC upon graduation and how this affects law school choice.

for me personally, its a drive to work at the upper echelons of the profession. when big deals go down, major litigation happens, etc. companies don't go to Oklahoma they go to nyc.

for pure money, secondary market could make plenty of sense, although i am not sure if your chance of getting partner goes down or anything if you do that.

....

+1

No interest in NYC, DC, Boston, etc. here.

.

There may be more total jobs in a primary market, but there's also likely a good bit more competition for those jobs, especially the top-notch ones, than there will be in the secondary markets. Since so many T14 grads gun for the big markets, if you have a T14 degree and aim for a secondary market you'll likely get a pretty darn good job since you're competing mainly against regional schools.

.

Miami is more expensive than Chicago. In fact Chicago is probably the best deal from (NYC, LA, DC, Chi, Bost).

Houston is the really cheap one.

Also a lot of those small cities have much less opportunities for random people to just hop in. Houston firms might not hire a Wisconsinite who went to Duke.

Working in a bigger market also gives you more opportunities in terms of different practice specialties. (Ex. Denver might be a great place to work/live and your dollar would certainly stretch further, but it's not a hotbed for, say, maritime law.) I currently practice in a fairly small specialty in a secondary (or third tier?) market in the public sector, but if I wanted to transition to private practice, there's literally only one firm in the entire state that I would be able to work for. My goal is to eventually move on to a larger market (DC or Chicago) where there would be more job openings in my specialty or more opportunities in related niche specialties.

I think attitude during the hiring process is likely important, as well. If you go for a secondary market from the outset, seek jobs and don't come off as "settling" for a job in that market because a bigger one was full, you may have a better shot of landing a good opportunity.

Why do lots of people live in the biggest cities?

b/c 85% of the V100 calls either New York, DC, Chicago, LA, Philly, San Franscisco / Palo Alto, Houston, or Dallas home ... that's where the opportunities are ... I'm not becoming a lawyer to "change the world" ... I am becomming a lawyer to make a disgusting amount of money and change my own personal position in the world ...

OP I posted a thread almost exactly like this one about a year ago. Here it is.
viewtopic.php?f=3&t=59258

People on here have huge tunnel vision and they also have an ignorant TV fueled bias against the mid markets you mentioned; as most of them are in the south.

There have been some rumblings that T14-ers have been having some difficulty in secondary markets because they are viewed as a flight-risk ITE (i.e. if they could get New York, they would leave that market in a second). If you go to a top school and want a secondary market, make sure to work there during both summers, otherwise employers may think you do not want to stay long term and will bolt when NYC comes calling.

BigLaw in secondary markets also tends to be on a much different scale than in large markets, so keep that in mind as well. There just aren't the same number of position to be had and SA's are hired minimally (only a couple a summer and they usually hire 1-2 local kids out of 3 total positions; not many which is why most T2's and lower T1's have a very low BigLaw %). It also depends on what secondary market you are aiming for. Boston will be different from Seattle, which is different from Miami, which is different from Denver, Nashville, Atlanta, Charlotte.... (etc., etc., etc.). Some legal markets are larger than other markets; some firms prefer local graduates more than others; some markets are doing worse/better in this economy, etc.

If you have your heart set on BigLaw, you want the big markets. And if you want the big markets, you want T14. Although ITE, if you just want a job period, you probably want T14 anyway....

Note: I have crappy numbers and am not getting close to T14. But I'm aware of my fate.

.

In many ways the V100 is a pretty bad way to go about working at a firm that will pay you a lot of money. That's because most of those firms have near impossible partnership odds (the way you make a "disgusting amount of money") Whereas the litigation boutiques where you make huge amounts of money (Boies and Susman Godfrey for example) are not even on the v100. These firms also tend to be much more selective than the very NYC biased V100 list. Susman is in Texas and Boies has a lot of offices in Florida (though they are in DC, Cali, and NY as well).

Even associates at Susman and Boies pull in 350K+ a year on a regular basis (and keep in mind this is locations where cost of living is much lower than NYC, so they actually enjoy it). You have to make close to 1 million dollars in NYC to live like someone who is making about 300K in Atlanta. Bondurant in Atlanta is very very selective, but the have high partnership odds. Their associates often pull in 200K+ after bonuses. Do you know what that kind of money does for you in Atlanta? Honestly, unless you are a partner at a law firm/Ibank/consulting firm you aren't going to be living that large in NYC working in those industries. Basically, if you want to live large in NYC you better be a CEO , an athlete, an actor, or a multi platinum music artist.

Agreed! It was just easier for me to focus on the V100 than discuss the boutiques. The boutiques are also often more difficult to crack than the V100 (minus perhaps the V5). I have a friend at Susman would make partner after 4 years after winning a couple of high-profile cases!

I don't believe that at all.

I hope that's sarcasm. Because if it's not you haven't been doing enough research on the legal field---you're probably relying too much on TLS.

I mean I don't believe the bolded part about 300K in Atlanta = 1 million in NYC. That's bullshit.

I have no problem with the rest.

EDIT: I didn't consider taxes especially the 40% top marginal rate. In which case its actually probably a lot closer than I thought.

I don't know about Kurama's exact numbers, but being a yuppie in Atlanta is ridiculously awesome. My roommate and I paid $800 each for a 1100 sqft 2 bedroom in a new building in a nice part of town. I pay over $1300 now for a 600 sqft convertible in Chicago, and while it's nice it's definitely a step down. I miss my giant bathroom*, marble countertops, washer-dryer hookup, etc.

*) With his and hers' sinks, not that I had much occasion to take advantage...

It may be a bit of exageration, but not much. $1 million plus for a one bedroom is not unusual in Manhattan. A big house in a nice suburb is a few hundred thousand in Atlanta, but a few million in NY. Taxes in NY are much higher. In NY you will pay an obscene amount for parking and insurance...

I know people who were making over 100k in NYC and still living in a small apt with roommates and no car. 100k in Atlanta is solidly upper middle class.

So what is this cost of living calculator missing? http://www.bestplaces.net/COL/

NYC appears to be 50% more expensive than ATL, not 333%.

Too bad you are a student. The condo market in Chicago is a buyers market right now.

If you want more for your buck you should move further north. Lakeview is a lot cheaper than the near north side.

EDIT: I didn't consider taxes especially the 40% top marginal rate. In which case its actually probably a lot closer than I thought.[/quote]


Look up what a 800K home is in Atlanta and then look that up in NYC. Look up what a $2500 a month apartment is in Atlanta and then look that up in NYC.

http://www.century21.com/realestatelist ... BR79326554
http://www.century21.com/realestatelist ... BR88389558
http://www.century21.com/realestatelist ... BR81299556