Minnesota vs. Iowa vs. Wisconsin vs. Illinois vs. Indiana

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huzhongxiaohe
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Re: Minnesota vs. Iowa vs. Wisconsin vs. Illinois vs. Indiana

Postby huzhongxiaohe » Sun Mar 07, 2010 5:12 am

Iowa is totally cool... dont know why some put it at the bottom.

as some others have suggested, Indiana's ranking is artificially high. UIowa as a whole has a solid reputation, and you get liberal farm-state folks who are actually really nice people. My friend went to college in that state and totally loved it.

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beef wellington
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Re: Minnesota vs. Iowa vs. Wisconsin vs. Illinois vs. Indiana

Postby beef wellington » Sun Mar 07, 2010 7:05 am

Question for those picking UIUC because of Chicago placement: do you really have a better shot at Chicago ITE from UIUC than say from UMN? I'm tempted to say UMN is the best choice here because it has the biggest home market and might be more insulated from the recession than most other schools. But this is just speculation.

Go Justice
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Re: Minnesota vs. Iowa vs. Wisconsin vs. Illinois vs. Indiana

Postby Go Justice » Mon Dec 21, 2015 9:06 am

This post from 2010 interests me. I'd like to know how people would answer in 2015/2016. Does Illinois still have its Chicago contacts? Have there been any radical changes in the Professors at these schools? or any other big changes? If cost was the same at all 4 and the intention was to practice in the midwest how would you rate them and why? Thanks!

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star fox
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Re: Minnesota vs. Iowa vs. Wisconsin vs. Illinois vs. Indiana

Postby star fox » Mon Dec 21, 2015 9:13 am

Go Justice wrote:This post from 2010 interests me. I'd like to know how people would answer in 2015/2016. Does Illinois still have its Chicago contacts? Have there been any radical changes in the Professors at these schools? or any other big changes? If cost was the same at all 4 and the intention was to practice in the midwest how would you rate them and why? Thanks!

Yes, Chicago firms are still gonna recruit at Illinois but it's gonna be a risky proposition to go to Illinois hoping for big law. Who cares about professors. They're the same at every school.

It depends what state you're from.

bl1nds1ght
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Re: Minnesota vs. Iowa vs. Wisconsin vs. Illinois vs. Indiana

Postby bl1nds1ght » Mon Dec 21, 2015 5:45 pm

ScaredWorkedBored wrote:These schools are essentially identical with the only difference being the state (their primary market). Illinois and Indiana have deceptive rankings. Indiana because of a large one-time money gift - seriously :shock: - and Illinois by raising its numbers far faster than its reputation, as the 2009 recruiting season proved.

The ordinary advice is (1) go to your home-state school; (2) go to the one in the state you want to practice; (3) go to the one with the best deal.

With money no object, I would visit all of them and go to the one I liked best.

Completely agree, but including Employment score and BL + FC may still be relevant:

1. Illinois ----- Emp. 72.4% /// 28.7%
2. Minnesota - Emp. 75.3% /// 20.0%
2. Iowa ------- Emp. 77.3% /// 18.7%
4. Indiana ---- Emp. 64.4% /// 19.0%
5. Wisconsin - Emp. 63.6% /// 16.1%

This would be my rank. MN and IA should be tied for 2nd because they are practically identical.

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trebekismyhero
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Re: Minnesota vs. Iowa vs. Wisconsin vs. Illinois vs. Indiana

Postby trebekismyhero » Tue Dec 22, 2015 11:20 am

bl1nds1ght wrote:

Completely agree, but including Employment score and BL + FC may still be relevant:

1. Illinois ----- Emp. 72.4% /// 28.7%
2. Minnesota - Emp. 75.3% /// 20.0%
2. Iowa ------- Emp. 77.3% /// 18.7%
4. Indiana ---- Emp. 64.4% /// 19.0%
5. Wisconsin - Emp. 63.6% /// 16.1%

This would be my rank. MN and IA should be tied for 2nd because they are practically identical.[/quote]

I agree with this. Especially if Chicago is your first choice then go to Illinois. But if you prefer to be in Minneapolis, then Minnesota would move up to no. 1. Illinois is easiest of the 5 to get big law and that's because it feeds into Chicago by far the biggest market in the midwest. Also, while all good schools that give you a good chance of becoming a lawyer, the average salaries are not that high if you don't make big law, so make sure you get a good scholarship

Traynor Brah
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Re: Minnesota vs. Iowa vs. Wisconsin vs. Illinois vs. Indiana

Postby Traynor Brah » Tue Dec 22, 2015 11:52 am

Go Justice wrote:This post from 2010 interests me. I'd like to know how people would answer in 2015/2016. Does Illinois still have its Chicago contacts? Have there been any radical changes in the Professors at these schools? or any other big changes? If cost was the same at all 4 and the intention was to practice in the midwest how would you rate them and why? Thanks!

The answer to this question is pretty simple: decide which specific state/city you want to practice in, and choose the school that is most well-regarded and places best in that market (for each state listed, it will likely be that state school). If all else is equal between two of the options, or if ties to specific regions in the Midwest are limited, tiebreaker goes to UIUC unless the tie is between UW and Minn, which goes to the latter.

However: Do not extract a general rule from my response. This is only the case because these are each respectable flag stateship schools, and each respective state's legal market it relatively small and insular. Also it must be the case if you decide to attend any of these schools that you have serious goals that do not involve biglaw, because the odds are against you--often to a great extent--at each of them.

Go Justice
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Re: Minnesota vs. Iowa vs. Wisconsin vs. Illinois vs. Indiana

Postby Go Justice » Wed Dec 23, 2015 2:10 pm

Traynor Brah wrote:
Go Justice wrote:This post from 2010 interests me. I'd like to know how people would answer in 2015/2016. Does Illinois still have its Chicago contacts? Have there been any radical changes in the Professors at these schools? or any other big changes? If cost was the same at all 4 and the intention was to practice in the midwest how would you rate them and why? Thanks!

The answer to this question is pretty simple: decide which specific state/city you want to practice in, and choose the school that is most well-regarded and places best in that market (for each state listed, it will likely be that state school). If all else is equal between two of the options, or if ties to specific regions in the Midwest are limited, tiebreaker goes to UIUC unless the tie is between UW and Minn, which goes to the latter.

However: Do not extract a general rule from my response. This is only the case because these are each respectable flag stateship schools, and each respective state's legal market it relatively small and insular. Also it must be the case if you decide to attend any of these schools that you have serious goals that do not involve biglaw, because the odds are against you--often to a great extent--at each of them.



I want to thank all the replies. They are very thoughtful and I really appreciate your time and thought

CPAlawHopefu
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Re: Minnesota vs. Iowa vs. Wisconsin vs. Illinois vs. Indiana

Postby CPAlawHopefu » Thu Jan 07, 2016 4:35 pm

Based on Biglaw entry numbers (2015 data):

1. Illinois - 18.38%
2. Iowa - 11.93%
3. Minnesota - 10.42%
4. Indiana - 9.55%
5. Wisconsin - NR

At first it seems like Illinois is in a different tier level than the rest. But keep in mind that a large portion of the Illinois-to-Biglaw is in IP. For non-IP I would say the field is leveled much more evenly that the difference becomes negligible.

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sox49
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Re: Minnesota vs. Iowa vs. Wisconsin vs. Illinois vs. Indiana

Postby sox49 » Thu Jan 07, 2016 4:55 pm

CPAlawHopefu wrote:Based on Biglaw entry numbers (2015 data):

1. Illinois - 18.38%
2. Iowa - 11.93%
3. Minnesota - 10.42%
4. Indiana - 9.55%
5. Wisconsin - NR

At first it seems like Illinois is in a different tier level than the rest. But keep in mind that a large portion of the Illinois-to-Biglaw is in IP. For non-IP I would say the field is leveled much more evenly that the difference becomes negligible.


So it's the case that 6-8% of Illinois big law is IP? What is usual proportion for schools that place similar numbers into big firms?

yenisey
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Re: Minnesota vs. Iowa vs. Wisconsin vs. Illinois vs. Indiana

Postby yenisey » Sat Jan 16, 2016 9:16 pm

huzhongxiaohe wrote:
Bill James wrote:1. Illinois
2. Minnesota
3. Iowa
4. Wisconsin
5. Indiana

The reason I put Indiana fifth is because they're ranked artificially high.

Again, scholarships could be a game-changer. It aslo depends on where you want to live afterwards.


Couldn't agree with you more on Indiana's ranking. The USNEWS policy change of combining full-time and part-time programs in calculating medians also gave them an artificial ranking boost.


I think USNews ought to rank full-time and part-time programs seperately, as they do with the on-line program.

yenisey
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Re: Minnesota vs. Iowa vs. Wisconsin vs. Illinois vs. Indiana

Postby yenisey » Sat Jan 16, 2016 9:21 pm

trebekismyhero wrote:
bl1nds1ght wrote:

Completely agree, but including Employment score and BL + FC may still be relevant:

1. Illinois ----- Emp. 72.4% /// 28.7%
2. Minnesota - Emp. 75.3% /// 20.0%
2. Iowa ------- Emp. 77.3% /// 18.7%
4. Indiana ---- Emp. 64.4% /// 19.0%
5. Wisconsin - Emp. 63.6% /// 16.1%

This would be my rank. MN and IA should be tied for 2nd because they are practically identical.


I agree with this. Especially if Chicago is your first choice then go to Illinois. But if you prefer to be in Minneapolis, then Minnesota would move up to no. 1. Illinois is easiest of the 5 to get big law and that's because it feeds into Chicago by far the biggest market in the midwest. Also, while all good schools that give you a good chance of becoming a lawyer, the average salaries are not that high if you don't make big law, so make sure you get a good scholarship[/quote]

How about the chances of Iowa into Chicago? I know in this respect Iowa is less on par with Illinois. But if compared to the other three?

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trebekismyhero
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Re: Minnesota vs. Iowa vs. Wisconsin vs. Illinois vs. Indiana

Postby trebekismyhero » Sat Jan 16, 2016 9:28 pm

yenisey wrote:
trebekismyhero wrote:
bl1nds1ght wrote:

Completely agree, but including Employment score and BL + FC may still be relevant:

1. Illinois ----- Emp. 72.4% /// 28.7%
2. Minnesota - Emp. 75.3% /// 20.0%
2. Iowa ------- Emp. 77.3% /// 18.7%
4. Indiana ---- Emp. 64.4% /// 19.0%
5. Wisconsin - Emp. 63.6% /// 16.1%

This would be my rank. MN and IA should be tied for 2nd because they are practically identical.


I agree with this. Especially if Chicago is your first choice then go to Illinois. But if you prefer to be in Minneapolis, then Minnesota would move up to no. 1. Illinois is easiest of the 5 to get big law and that's because it feeds into Chicago by far the biggest market in the midwest. Also, while all good schools that give you a good chance of becoming a lawyer, the average salaries are not that high if you don't make big law, so make sure you get a good scholarship


How about the chances of Iowa into Chicago? I know in this respect Iowa is less on par with Illinois. But if compared to the other three?[/quote]

For Chicago, obviously Illinois is the best bet. After that I am not sure there is really a difference. I work at a large firm in Chicago and I know that we only recruit at Illinois of the 5. I think it probably comes down to which school has more alumni to network with in Chicago.

yenisey
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Re: Minnesota vs. Iowa vs. Wisconsin vs. Illinois vs. Indiana

Postby yenisey » Sat Jan 16, 2016 9:48 pm

trebekismyhero wrote:For Chicago, obviously Illinois is the best bet. After that I am not sure there is really a difference. I work at a large firm in Chicago and I know that we only recruit at Illinois of the 5. I think it probably comes down to which school has more alumni to network with in Chicago.


Many thanks! If Iowa vs Ohio State, eliminating other factors, focusing on employment, which one has the upperhand?

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trebekismyhero
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Re: Minnesota vs. Iowa vs. Wisconsin vs. Illinois vs. Indiana

Postby trebekismyhero » Tue Jan 19, 2016 12:02 pm

yenisey wrote:
trebekismyhero wrote:For Chicago, obviously Illinois is the best bet. After that I am not sure there is really a difference. I work at a large firm in Chicago and I know that we only recruit at Illinois of the 5. I think it probably comes down to which school has more alumni to network with in Chicago.


Many thanks! If Iowa vs Ohio State, eliminating other factors, focusing on employment, which one has the upperhand?


Do you mean in Chicago? I would assume Iowa just cause there are probably more alums in Chicago. But if you really want Chicago, I'd go to Illinois

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CJRpnw
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Re: Minnesota vs. Iowa vs. Wisconsin vs. Illinois vs. Indiana

Postby CJRpnw » Tue Jan 19, 2016 2:12 pm

Anyone have any views on this question if the goal is public interest/human rights law? It seems to me that either Illinois, with its access to Chicago, or Minnesota, with its varied PI programs and Twin Cities location, would be best, but I'm interested to hear outside perspective.




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