Minnesota vs. Iowa vs. Wisconsin vs. Illinois vs. Indiana

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keepingitcool
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Minnesota vs. Iowa vs. Wisconsin vs. Illinois vs. Indiana

Postby keepingitcool » Sun Dec 27, 2009 9:15 pm

Hello everyone, this is my first post after silently looking at posts on this website since I made the decision to attend law school.

A little about myself, I am currently an MBA student at a USNWR top 15 MBA program and have a military background as an Army Officer. I have been accepted to all the schools mentioned above to study law. I was hoping to get thoughts and opinions on how these schools match up against each other.

If possible, please rank and give reasons for those rankings. I know these are considered peer schools and money is not necessarily a factor yet in which school I will attend. As such, I want to know if money were no object which school would you attend out of the ones I’ve mentioned?

Thanks in advance for your responses!

Bill James
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Re: Minnesota vs. Iowa vs. Wisconsin vs. Illinois vs. Indiana

Postby Bill James » Sun Dec 27, 2009 9:39 pm

keepingitcool wrote:Hello everyone, this is my first post after silently looking at posts on this website since I made the decision to attend law school.

A little about myself, I am currently an MBA student at a USNWR top 15 MBA program and have a military background as an Army Officer. I have been accepted to all the schools mentioned above to study law. I was hoping to get thoughts and opinions on how these schools match up against each other.

If possible, please rank and give reasons for those rankings. I know these are considered peer schools and money is not necessarily a factor yet in which school I will attend. As such, I want to know if money were no object which school would you attend out of the ones I’ve mentioned?

Thanks in advance for your responses!



1. Illinois
2. Minnesota
3. Iowa
4. Wisconsin
5. Indiana

The reason I put Indiana fifth is because they're ranked artificially high.

Again, scholarships could be a game-changer. It aslo depends on where you want to live afterwards.

tamlyric
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Re: Minnesota vs. Iowa vs. Wisconsin vs. Illinois vs. Indiana

Postby tamlyric » Sun Dec 27, 2009 9:41 pm

Thanks for the thread! I am interested to see what people say.

Bankhead
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Re: Minnesota vs. Iowa vs. Wisconsin vs. Illinois vs. Indiana

Postby Bankhead » Sun Dec 27, 2009 9:46 pm

Bill James wrote:
keepingitcool wrote:Hello everyone, this is my first post after silently looking at posts on this website since I made the decision to attend law school.

A little about myself, I am currently an MBA student at a USNWR top 15 MBA program and have a military background as an Army Officer. I have been accepted to all the schools mentioned above to study law. I was hoping to get thoughts and opinions on how these schools match up against each other.

If possible, please rank and give reasons for those rankings. I know these are considered peer schools and money is not necessarily a factor yet in which school I will attend. As such, I want to know if money were no object which school would you attend out of the ones I’ve mentioned?

Thanks in advance for your responses!



1. Illinois
2. Minnesota
3. Iowa
4. Wisconsin
5. Indiana

The reason I put Indiana fifth is because they're ranked artificially high.

Again, scholarships could be a game-changer. It aslo depends on where you want to live afterwards.




This looks about right. I'd switch Indiana and Wisconsin, but I guess no reason to go that low on the list anyway.

keepingitcool
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Re: Minnesota vs. Iowa vs. Wisconsin vs. Illinois vs. Indiana

Postby keepingitcool » Sun Dec 27, 2009 9:58 pm

tamlyric wrote:Thanks for the thread! I am interested to see what people say.


No problem. I know, after viewing the acceptance threads, that there are a number of people that have acceptances to a few of these schools and will have a tough time picking which one to attend. These schools all compete in the same region, so I want to know how others perceive these schools.

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twert
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Re: Minnesota vs. Iowa vs. Wisconsin vs. Illinois vs. Indiana

Postby twert » Sun Dec 27, 2009 9:59 pm

I don't think the difference between these schools is significant. chose your market and go to that school.

ScaredWorkedBored
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Re: Minnesota vs. Iowa vs. Wisconsin vs. Illinois vs. Indiana

Postby ScaredWorkedBored » Mon Dec 28, 2009 12:31 pm

These schools are essentially identical with the only difference being the state (their primary market). Illinois and Indiana have deceptive rankings. Indiana because of a large one-time money gift - seriously :shock: - and Illinois by raising its numbers far faster than its reputation, as the 2009 recruiting season proved.

The ordinary advice is (1) go to your home-state school; (2) go to the one in the state you want to practice; (3) go to the one with the best deal.

With money no object, I would visit all of them and go to the one I liked best.

BobDole34
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Re: Minnesota vs. Iowa vs. Wisconsin vs. Illinois vs. Indiana

Postby BobDole34 » Mon Dec 28, 2009 6:52 pm

Go to the cheapest. I'm not sure if I should LAUGH or get MAD at people who try to objectively rank these schools, as if someone will make a life changing decision because Minnesota is a tiny bit better than Iowa. They're all peers. Good, regional, midwestern schools. You're getting shut out of Biglaw at all of these schools ITE, excluding the top 10-15-20%, MAYBE.

09042014
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Re: Minnesota vs. Iowa vs. Wisconsin vs. Illinois vs. Indiana

Postby 09042014 » Mon Dec 28, 2009 6:58 pm

BobDole34 wrote:Go to the cheapest. I'm not sure if I should LAUGH or get MAD at people who try to objectively rank these schools, as if someone will make a life changing decision because Minnesota is a tiny bit better than Iowa. They're all peers. Good, regional, midwestern schools. You're getting shut out of Biglaw at all of these schools ITE, excluding the top 10-15-20%, MAYBE.


I'd rank Illinois above the rest only because it places into Chicago biglaw, a major market. But use I use the term places very loosely, since you are right its top 10%. Its certainly not better at teaching law, it just lucks out because of Chicago.

The thing about the T1 Midwestern state schools is they really only place in their own state. The OP needs to decide which state they want to live in and go to that school. They are peers, but they aren't interchangeable.

In terms of scholarship, I'd negotiate. They all know they are peers and should match.

huzhongxiaohe
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Re: Minnesota vs. Iowa vs. Wisconsin vs. Illinois vs. Indiana

Postby huzhongxiaohe » Thu Jan 28, 2010 7:21 pm

Bill James wrote:1. Illinois
2. Minnesota
3. Iowa
4. Wisconsin
5. Indiana

The reason I put Indiana fifth is because they're ranked artificially high.

Again, scholarships could be a game-changer. It aslo depends on where you want to live afterwards.


Couldn't agree with you more on Indiana's ranking. The USNEWS policy change of combining full-time and part-time programs in calculating medians also gave them an artificial ranking boost.

Kobe_Teeth
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Re: Minnesota vs. Iowa vs. Wisconsin vs. Illinois vs. Indiana

Postby Kobe_Teeth » Thu Jan 28, 2010 8:12 pm

1. Illinois for the same reason as Desert Fox's
2. Minnesota




3. Wisconsin
4/5. Iowa and Indiana

It seems like Minnesota is a great school but it gets trumped by U of I's ties to Chicago. (I've seen stats)
WI seems to be more popular for some reason, artificial or otherwise, I have no idea. (part stats and TLS hearsay)
IA and IU-B seem to be struggling right now as far as placing in Chicago (that is based purely on TLS anecdotes).

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Vincent Vega
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Re: Minnesota vs. Iowa vs. Wisconsin vs. Illinois vs. Indiana

Postby Vincent Vega » Sat Jan 30, 2010 11:49 pm

1. Illinois
2. Minnesota
3. Indiana
4. Iowa
5. Wisconsin

The top two are pretty well solid, imo. The bottom three are pretty close. I got full scholarships from both Indiana and Iowa and I chose to attend Indiana. Wisconsin is fairly close to them, and will definitely be best if you want to practice in Madison or Milwaukee, but just doesn't have the national (what little there is in the 20-30 range) or regional reach that Indiana and Iowa seem to have.

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blurbz
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Re: Minnesota vs. Iowa vs. Wisconsin vs. Illinois vs. Indiana

Postby blurbz » Thu Feb 25, 2010 10:32 am

I may have to make this decision, and I still have no idea.

Right now, they are all equal in cost.

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Aberzombie1892
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Re: Minnesota vs. Iowa vs. Wisconsin vs. Illinois vs. Indiana

Postby Aberzombie1892 » Thu Feb 25, 2010 10:43 am

Well given the 2009 placement, among other things, the list should look like this:

Illinois/Wisconsin
Iowa/Minnesota





Indiana

starstruck393
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Re: Minnesota vs. Iowa vs. Wisconsin vs. Illinois vs. Indiana

Postby starstruck393 » Thu Feb 25, 2010 10:45 am

ScaredWorkedBored wrote:These schools are essentially identical with the only difference being the state (their primary market). Illinois and Indiana have deceptive rankings. Indiana because of a large one-time money gift - seriously :shock: - and Illinois by raising its numbers far faster than its reputation, as the 2009 recruiting season proved.

The ordinary advice is (1) go to your home-state school; (2) go to the one in the state you want to practice; (3) go to the one with the best deal.

With money no object, I would visit all of them and go to the one I liked best.


Actually this really isn't true. UIUC has historically been a T20-25 school (they were ~17-18 for a long time), and only in the last 5 or so years did it slip, before coming back up.

If I had to rank them, I would probably say:
1: UMN/UIUC
2. UW
3: IUB
4: UI

BobDole34
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Re: Minnesota vs. Iowa vs. Wisconsin vs. Illinois vs. Indiana

Postby BobDole34 » Thu Feb 25, 2010 9:38 pm

Halibut6 wrote:Wisconsin ... doesn't have the national ... or regional reach that Indiana and Iowa seem to have.


are you seriously kidding me? My head literally exploded.

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tallboone
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Re: Minnesota vs. Iowa vs. Wisconsin vs. Illinois vs. Indiana

Postby tallboone » Thu Feb 25, 2010 9:44 pm

keepingitcool wrote:A little about myself, I am currently an MBA student at a USNWR top 15 MBA program and have a military background as an Army Officer.


Why are you going to a law school if you are in a top-15 MBA program?

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thinkbig
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Re: Minnesota vs. Iowa vs. Wisconsin vs. Illinois vs. Indiana

Postby thinkbig » Thu Feb 25, 2010 9:48 pm

tallboone wrote:
keepingitcool wrote:A little about myself, I am currently an MBA student at a USNWR top 15 MBA program and have a military background as an Army Officer.


Why are you going to a law school if you are in a top-15 MBA program?


JD+MBA is huge

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thinkbig
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Re: Minnesota vs. Iowa vs. Wisconsin vs. Illinois vs. Indiana

Postby thinkbig » Thu Feb 25, 2010 9:49 pm

starstruck393 wrote:
If I had to rank them, I would probably say:
1: UMN/UIUC
2. UW
3: IUB
4: UI


+1

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danquayle
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Re: Minnesota vs. Iowa vs. Wisconsin vs. Illinois vs. Indiana

Postby danquayle » Fri Feb 26, 2010 11:52 am

Well, professor movement is sometimes a good indication of school quality. They have a good grasp of the relative strengths of a law school and, absent tenure track reasons or a position as a Dean, Professors rarely move downward in terms of prestige. So through that prism, Iowa clearly seems to be suffering right now, as they've lost some major professors recently. (One to IU, one to Wash U).

It's also interesting to me that Illinois just lost a professor to Alabama.

http://leiterlawschool.typepad.com/

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danquayle
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Re: Minnesota vs. Iowa vs. Wisconsin vs. Illinois vs. Indiana

Postby danquayle » Fri Feb 26, 2010 12:06 pm

BobDole34 wrote:
Halibut6 wrote:Wisconsin ... doesn't have the national ... or regional reach that Indiana and Iowa seem to have.


are you seriously kidding me? My head literally exploded.


Well... according to Princeton Review...

School A

New England: 1%
Middle Atlantic: 6%
South: 7%
MidWest: 74%
Mountain: 1%
South West: 3%
Pacific Region: 4%
International: 2%

School B

New England: 3%
Middle Atlantic: 2%
South: 25%
MidWest: 52%
Mountain: 3%
South West: 2%
Pacific Region: 10%
International: 1%

School C

New England: 2%
Middle Atlantic: 2%
South: 10%
MidWest: 76%
Mountain: 3%
South West: 3%
Pacific Region: 2%
International: 2%

Do any of these look particularly national to you?

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Vincent Vega
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Re: Minnesota vs. Iowa vs. Wisconsin vs. Illinois vs. Indiana

Postby Vincent Vega » Fri Feb 26, 2010 6:55 pm

BobDole34 wrote:
Halibut6 wrote:Wisconsin ... doesn't have the national ... or regional reach that Indiana and Iowa seem to have.


are you seriously kidding me? My head literally exploded.


I made this comment a month ago, and I had never done any research on Wisconsin. I would not make that claim today.

And if your head exploded, how did you even have the mental capacity to type? Riddle me that!

BobDole34
Posts: 76
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Re: Minnesota vs. Iowa vs. Wisconsin vs. Illinois vs. Indiana

Postby BobDole34 » Wed Mar 03, 2010 12:06 pm

danquayle wrote:
BobDole34 wrote:
Halibut6 wrote:Wisconsin ... doesn't have the national ... or regional reach that Indiana and Iowa seem to have.


are you seriously kidding me? My head literally exploded.


Well... according to Princeton Review...

School A

New England: 1%
Middle Atlantic: 6%
South: 7%
MidWest: 74%
Mountain: 1%
South West: 3%
Pacific Region: 4%
International: 2%

School B

New England: 3%
Middle Atlantic: 2%
South: 25%
MidWest: 52%
Mountain: 3%
South West: 2%
Pacific Region: 10%
International: 1%

School C

New England: 2%
Middle Atlantic: 2%
South: 10%
MidWest: 76%
Mountain: 3%
South West: 3%
Pacific Region: 2%
International: 2%

Do any of these look particularly national to you?


Do you know how to read? The argument made is that two of the schools are somehow more national than the third when they're all regional.

That said, citing Princeton Review for law school placement might be even dumber than not understanding how to debunk the posed argument.

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danquayle
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Re: Minnesota vs. Iowa vs. Wisconsin vs. Illinois vs. Indiana

Postby danquayle » Wed Mar 03, 2010 2:45 pm

BobDole34 wrote:
danquayle wrote:
BobDole34 wrote:
Halibut6 wrote:Wisconsin ... doesn't have the national ... or regional reach that Indiana and Iowa seem to have.


are you seriously kidding me? My head literally exploded.


Well... according to Princeton Review...

School A

New England: 1%
Middle Atlantic: 6%
South: 7%
MidWest: 74%
Mountain: 1%
South West: 3%
Pacific Region: 4%
International: 2%

School B

New England: 3%
Middle Atlantic: 2%
South: 25%
MidWest: 52%
Mountain: 3%
South West: 2%
Pacific Region: 10%
International: 1%

School C

New England: 2%
Middle Atlantic: 2%
South: 10%
MidWest: 76%
Mountain: 3%
South West: 3%
Pacific Region: 2%
International: 2%

Do any of these look particularly national to you?


Do you know how to read? The argument made is that two of the schools are somehow more national than the third when they're all regional.

That said, citing Princeton Review for law school placement might be even dumber than not understanding how to debunk the posed argument.


They're all regional. That's the point. I was supporting you. And whats wrong with using Princeton Review for geographic placement? They use school reported info, so they're flawed in the same way every school's self-reporting statistics are: unreliable for actually expected salaries, but not for geographic placement. I'm sorry your vagina bleeds so heavily for Wisconsin.

ToTransferOrNot
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Re: Minnesota vs. Iowa vs. Wisconsin vs. Illinois vs. Indiana

Postby ToTransferOrNot » Wed Mar 03, 2010 4:02 pm

They're all the same. Perhaps Illinois has a slight leg up because its "native market" is Chicago. However, that can cut either way--your "native market" is far more saturated than Wisconsin's, or Minnesota's.

If your priority is: 1.) Coasts; 2.) Chicago; 3.) anywhere else (and you don't care where "anywhere else") is, I might say the most logical choice is Minnesota, because it the Minneapolis market is larger than Wisconsin/Indiana/Iowa, and you aren't at such over-saturation levels as you are at Chicago.

All of the schools you mention are equal at the coasts (low chance) and in Chicago.




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