Fordham vs Cornell?

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beesknees
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Re: Fordham vs Cornell?

Postby beesknees » Mon Dec 28, 2009 6:36 pm

dresden doll wrote:
excelsiorcaelo wrote:ITT: TLSers suck at the sweet teat of prestige.

Not that I disagree. This is just business as usual. :D


You had better not be disagreeing, Mr. Yale UG/HLS.


+1 lol

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excelsiorcaelo
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Re: Fordham vs Cornell?

Postby excelsiorcaelo » Mon Dec 28, 2009 6:55 pm

beesknees wrote:
dresden doll wrote:
excelsiorcaelo wrote:ITT: TLSers suck at the sweet teat of prestige.

Not that I disagree. This is just business as usual. :D


You had better not be disagreeing, Mr. Yale UG/HLS.


+1 lol

I would never dream of disagreeing with dresden.

She'll break your ankle!

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dresden doll
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Re: Fordham vs Cornell?

Postby dresden doll » Mon Dec 28, 2009 7:09 pm

excelsiorcaelo wrote:
beesknees wrote:
dresden doll wrote:
excelsiorcaelo wrote:ITT: TLSers suck at the sweet teat of prestige.

Not that I disagree. This is just business as usual. :D


You had better not be disagreeing, Mr. Yale UG/HLS.


+1 lol

I would never dream of disagreeing with dresden.

She'll break your ankle!


TBF, I would help you walk afterwords. I'm a merciful abuser.

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XxSpyKEx
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Re: Fordham vs Cornell?

Postby XxSpyKEx » Mon Dec 28, 2009 7:40 pm

I vote neither.

irishman86
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Re: Fordham vs Cornell?

Postby irishman86 » Tue Dec 29, 2009 6:06 am

at the same price, obviously cornell.

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OperaSoprano
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Re: Fordham vs Cornell?

Postby OperaSoprano » Tue Dec 29, 2009 6:48 am

My goodness, this thread blew up! I will say something about the company of high achievers, since I have it. I am constantly inspired by my friends with stratospheric LSAT scores, but I'm proud to say I have friends from HYS down to NYLS. I don't feel less enriched, or like I am wasting my time, when I spend it with people who had more modest numbers. My own numbers were extremely modest. I'm here by a miracle, and not a day goes by that I don't appreciate the chance I was given.

I may not be at a T14, but some of my classmates are exceedingly well connected, and many are far wealthier than I am. I don't care at all for their money, though if they introduce me to people who might hire me, of course I'll be grateful. My classmates are going places. Not all to biglaw, obviously, but that is not the only path which leads to a fulfilling life.

It is indisputable fact that OP will have more doors open if she goes to a T14, however, if she goes to Fordham, she will still have hundreds of highly intelligent classmates, and she and her classmates will be going places. Fordham students are usually 91st through 97th percentilers, and most have quite decent GPAs, since the school is not overly fond of splitters. I can't walk three feet at my school without running into Columbia and Cornell UG grads. Anyone who thinks my classmates are less than intelligent because they don't attend a T14 is sorely mistaken.

I love my school, and even if I have top 6% grades as does my mentor here, I will remain faithful. Fordham has everything I expect to need, and should be able to get me the job I want. That said, I won't tell the OP not to go to Cornell. She should visit and get a sense of the place, so she can make an informed decision.

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dresden doll
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Re: Fordham vs Cornell?

Postby dresden doll » Tue Dec 29, 2009 10:23 am

OperaSoprano wrote:My goodness, this thread blew up! I will say something about the company of high achievers, since I have it. I am constantly inspired by my friends with stratospheric LSAT scores, but I'm proud to say I have friends from HYS down to NYLS. I don't feel less enriched, or like I am wasting my time, when I spend it with people who had more modest numbers. My own numbers were extremely modest. I'm here by a miracle, and not a day goes by that I don't appreciate the chance I was given.

I may not be at a T14, but some of my classmates are exceedingly well connected, and many are far wealthier than I am. I don't care at all for their money, though if they introduce me to people who might hire me, of course I'll be grateful. My classmates are going places. Not all to biglaw, obviously, but that is not the only path which leads to a fulfilling life.

It is indisputable fact that OP will have more doors open if she goes to a T14, however, if she goes to Fordham, she will still have hundreds of highly intelligent classmates, and she and her classmates will be going places. Fordham students are usually 91st through 97th percentilers, and most have quite decent GPAs, since the school is not overly fond of splitters. I can't walk three feet at my school without running into Columbia and Cornell UG grads. Anyone who thinks my classmates are less than intelligent because they don't attend a T14 is sorely mistaken.

I love my school, and even if I have top 6% grades as does my mentor here, I will remain faithful. Fordham has everything I expect to need, and should be able to get me the job I want. That said, I won't tell the OP not to go to Cornell. She should visit and get a sense of the place, so she can make an informed decision.


My commentary recalled days I spent at the festering cesspool that was my TTT UG. Since Fordham isn't a TTT LS, the same naturally doesn't apply.

I don't think anyone ITT doubted that plenty of intelligent kids who will go places attend Fordham. The mere assertion was that Cornell's prestige factor's higher - and that's rather hard to argue with. At the end of the day, Ivy's an Ivy.

fsohn
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Re: Fordham vs Cornell?

Postby fsohn » Tue Dec 29, 2009 11:01 am

dresden doll wrote:
OperaSoprano wrote:My goodness, this thread blew up! I will say something about the company of high achievers, since I have it. I am constantly inspired by my friends with stratospheric LSAT scores, but I'm proud to say I have friends from HYS down to NYLS. I don't feel less enriched, or like I am wasting my time, when I spend it with people who had more modest numbers. My own numbers were extremely modest. I'm here by a miracle, and not a day goes by that I don't appreciate the chance I was given.

I may not be at a T14, but some of my classmates are exceedingly well connected, and many are far wealthier than I am. I don't care at all for their money, though if they introduce me to people who might hire me, of course I'll be grateful. My classmates are going places. Not all to biglaw, obviously, but that is not the only path which leads to a fulfilling life.

It is indisputable fact that OP will have more doors open if she goes to a T14, however, if she goes to Fordham, she will still have hundreds of highly intelligent classmates, and she and her classmates will be going places. Fordham students are usually 91st through 97th percentilers, and most have quite decent GPAs, since the school is not overly fond of splitters. I can't walk three feet at my school without running into Columbia and Cornell UG grads. Anyone who thinks my classmates are less than intelligent because they don't attend a T14 is sorely mistaken.

I love my school, and even if I have top 6% grades as does my mentor here, I will remain faithful. Fordham has everything I expect to need, and should be able to get me the job I want. That said, I won't tell the OP not to go to Cornell. She should visit and get a sense of the place, so she can make an informed decision.


My commentary recalled days I spent at the festering cesspool that was my TTT UG. Since Fordham isn't a TTT LS, the same naturally doesn't apply.

I don't think anyone ITT doubted that plenty of intelligent kids who will go places attend Fordham. The mere assertion was that Cornell's prestige factor's higher - and that's rather hard to argue with. At the end of the day, Ivy's an Ivy.


Well, no, at the end of the day, the Ivy League is an undergraduate sports league that has no relevance to Cornell Law School except for the bastardized concept of "lay prestige," which ONLY matters on TLS.
Last edited by fsohn on Tue Dec 29, 2009 11:09 am, edited 1 time in total.

sibley
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Re: Fordham vs Cornell?

Postby sibley » Tue Dec 29, 2009 11:05 am

Cornell has really excellent food. But if you lived in New York, you wouldn't need to do your dining at your school.

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dresden doll
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Re: Fordham vs Cornell?

Postby dresden doll » Tue Dec 29, 2009 11:14 am

fsohn wrote:Well, no, at the end of the day, the Ivy League is an undergraduate sports league that has no relevance to Cornell Law School except for the bastardized concept of "lay prestige," which ONLY matters on TLS.


Aren't you the guy arguing that Cornell = jumping into the deep end, but Fordham =/= not jumping into the deep end at the same price? Mmmmmkay.

Also, I picked an LS with zero lay prestige over Cornell in my own app cycle. You need not preach me about the relevance of lay prestige (not to even mention the fact that the prestige advantage that got discussed ITT didn't exactly relate to the benefit of average Joe recognizing your school's name, but whatever).

sibley
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Re: Fordham vs Cornell?

Postby sibley » Tue Dec 29, 2009 11:21 am

Cornell's one of the best schools I could likely get into. Not even bothering applying. Yuck.

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Re: Fordham vs Cornell?

Postby fsohn » Tue Dec 29, 2009 11:31 am

dresden doll wrote:
fsohn wrote:Well, no, at the end of the day, the Ivy League is an undergraduate sports league that has no relevance to Cornell Law School except for the bastardized concept of "lay prestige," which ONLY matters on TLS.


Aren't you the guy arguing that Cornell = jumping into the deep end, but Fordham =/= not jumping into the deep end at the same price? Mmmmmkay.

Also, I picked an LS with zero lay prestige over Cornell in my own app cycle. You need not preach me about the relevance of lay prestige (not to even mention the fact that the prestige advantage that got discussed ITT didn't exactly relate to the benefit of average Joe recognizing your school's name, but whatever).


That you still don't understand what I'm saying isn't surprizing--I'm a terrible interwebz polemicist.

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MC Southstar
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Re: Fordham vs Cornell?

Postby MC Southstar » Tue Dec 29, 2009 11:35 am

dresden doll wrote:
fsohn wrote:Well, no, at the end of the day, the Ivy League is an undergraduate sports league that has no relevance to Cornell Law School except for the bastardized concept of "lay prestige," which ONLY matters on TLS.


Aren't you the guy arguing that Cornell = jumping into the deep end, but Fordham =/= not jumping into the deep end at the same price? Mmmmmkay.

Also, I picked an LS with zero lay prestige over Cornell in my own app cycle. You need not preach me about the relevance of lay prestige (not to even mention the fact that the prestige advantage that got discussed ITT didn't exactly relate to the benefit of average Joe recognizing your school's name, but whatever).


Ivy may be a sports league, but it means a lot to a lot of people, therefore it's not irrelevant. Cornell does have an inflated reputation, probably because its graduates are like zerglings and its the easiest ivy to get into, but that inflated reputation isn't just hot air if a whole lot of people in the world think its actually substantiated. I'm not sure an ivy would necessarily have more overachievers than any other good school, that logic seems flawed to me. More likely, I'd bet that an ivy has more people who would like to think they achieved more than everyone else and the ivy status is just an additional inflated reputation to further inflate their already bursting ego. On the other hand, because of the relative age AND prestige of the ivy league schools, I wouldn't be surprised if their alumni networks were a little more robust.

I'd say Cornell, at equal cost, not because it's an ivy, just because it's a better school with historically better opportunities. Are you really going to cry about spending three years away from your friends and family...? If you really are such a pussy, just go to Fordham, and be willing to take a potential hit to your career. It probably won't make a world of difference, Fordham's alumni network is probably strong enough that it won't get decimated and it's a very decent school.

sibley
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Re: Fordham vs Cornell?

Postby sibley » Tue Dec 29, 2009 11:36 am

Cornell's not even ALL Ivy. I have a friend who was in their agricultural program. No Ivy standing with that... it's state funded. Half state, half ivy. Weird freaking school.

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mbw
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Re: Fordham vs Cornell?

Postby mbw » Tue Dec 29, 2009 12:15 pm

kurama20 wrote:
rookhawk wrote:I cringe at this thread but its probably because I'm a parent and I see things differently today.

Beyond being a success in your own career, the greatest gift you can give your descendents is a legacy. If you're not upper class by birth with a name for yourself, for God's sake go to Ivy League Cornell over the other choice. Heriditary wealth is built one brick at a time.

But what do I know? I grew up on the wrong side of the tracks. I'd gladly meet you with pistols at dawn for the chance to go to Cornell and give myself and my progeny a better life. Ivy families breed more ivy grads and with equal determination, the ivy kid is going to have a hell of a lot easier time making the key business/alumni networking connections to propel themselves into the upper class. (I say this based on my own experience observing my wife's multi-generational ivy family)



GOOD post. And something that isn't often mentioned/thought about on here. This is doubly true for the OP since she's URM.


I've read all the subsequent posts, but came back to quote these two, as I think they strike to the heart of the issue.

I have to chuckle when I read that the Ivy League is ONLY a sports league and Cornell isn't even a REAL Ivy anyway. Generally, I don't claim to have some sort of added knowledge regarding law school issues just because of my age - however, in this case, 20+ years of work/life experience may enhance my perspective just a tad. "Lay prestige" doesn't exist only on TLS - you'll find that in many, if not most, work and social situations, something as ridiculous as the name of ones educational institutions has an inordinate influence how one is perceived by others. For those of us (URMs in particular) who have been systematically blocked from flaunting such pedigrees for centuries, we understand the rules of the game pretty well, and, as rookhawk stated above, recognize how generational pedigrees are even more game-changing.

I have a friend who turned down a full-paid scholly at non-Ivy T-10 for much less money at an Ivy T-10 - Their simple comment? "Who would have thought a [URM] from [large inner-city area] could go to [big-ivy]?" Somehow, I don't think that I would have found myself walking around any of my other accepted schools like I did Cornell this fall, thinking to myself, "Self, you're the first woman in your family to even go to college (well, since we NDNs got kicked out of Dartmouth), and you're at an Ivy law school." Never underestimate the importance of people's dreams.

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Re: Fordham vs Cornell?

Postby sibley » Tue Dec 29, 2009 12:17 pm

This is one of those situations, mbw, where logic should prevail over dreams.

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Re: Fordham vs Cornell?

Postby 09042014 » Tue Dec 29, 2009 12:27 pm

mbw wrote:
kurama20 wrote:
rookhawk wrote:I cringe at this thread but its probably because I'm a parent and I see things differently today.

Beyond being a success in your own career, the greatest gift you can give your descendents is a legacy. If you're not upper class by birth with a name for yourself, for God's sake go to Ivy League Cornell over the other choice. Heriditary wealth is built one brick at a time.

But what do I know? I grew up on the wrong side of the tracks. I'd gladly meet you with pistols at dawn for the chance to go to Cornell and give myself and my progeny a better life. Ivy families breed more ivy grads and with equal determination, the ivy kid is going to have a hell of a lot easier time making the key business/alumni networking connections to propel themselves into the upper class. (I say this based on my own experience observing my wife's multi-generational ivy family)



GOOD post. And something that isn't often mentioned/thought about on here. This is doubly true for the OP since she's URM.


I've read all the subsequent posts, but came back to quote these two, as I think they strike to the heart of the issue.

I have to chuckle when I read that the Ivy League is ONLY a sports league and Cornell isn't even a REAL Ivy anyway. Generally, I don't claim to have some sort of added knowledge regarding law school issues just because of my age - however, in this case, 20+ years of work/life experience may enhance my perspective just a tad. "Lay prestige" doesn't exist only on TLS - you'll find that in many, if not most, work and social situations, something as ridiculous as the name of ones educational institutions has an inordinate influence how one is perceived by others. For those of us (URMs in particular) who have been systematically blocked from flaunting such pedigrees for centuries, we understand the rules of the game pretty well, and, as rookhawk stated above, recognize how generational pedigrees are even more game-changing.

I have a friend who turned down a full-paid scholly at non-Ivy T-10 for much less money at an Ivy T-10 - Their simple comment? "Who would have thought a [URM] from [large inner-city area] could go to [big-ivy]?" Somehow, I don't think that I would have found myself walking around any of my other accepted schools like I did Cornell this fall, thinking to myself, "Self, you're the first woman in your family to even go to college (well, since we NDNs got kicked out of Dartmouth), and you're at an Ivy law school." Never underestimate the importance of people's dreams.



Cornell and Brown are just coasting off the legacy of the rest of the Ivy League.

sibley
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Re: Fordham vs Cornell?

Postby sibley » Tue Dec 29, 2009 12:29 pm

Hey! Emma Watson goes to Brown! She's British! That makes them the MOST Ivy of the Ivies!

Emma Watson at Brown makes it the literal Oxford of the US. You know they based Hogwarts off of one of the Oxford colleges...

cicely101
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Re: Fordham vs Cornell?

Postby cicely101 » Tue Dec 29, 2009 12:38 pm

This is weird but a huge factor in my decision, I've heard quality of life sucks at Cornell ie (studying 5-hours a day). I know it's law school and I am fully aware that I have to put in long hours at the library but 5-hour days seem harsh. Can any current Cornelll Law students let me know if this rumor is actually true?

09042014
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Re: Fordham vs Cornell?

Postby 09042014 » Tue Dec 29, 2009 12:42 pm

cicely101 wrote:This is weird but a huge factor in my decision, I've heard quality of life sucks at Cornell ie (studying 5-hours a day). I know it's law school and I am fully aware that I have to put in long hours at the library but 5-hour days seem harsh. Can any current Cornelll Law students let me know if this rumor is actually true?


That does suck but you are going to have to be putting in a ton of time at Fordham as well. Because you are fucked if you don't get top 10%. Good luck with that.

cicely101
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Re: Fordham vs Cornell?

Postby cicely101 » Tue Dec 29, 2009 12:49 pm

Desert Fox wrote:
cicely101 wrote:This is weird but a huge factor in my decision, I've heard quality of life sucks at Cornell ie (studying 5-hours a day). I know it's law school and I am fully aware that I have to put in long hours at the library but 5-hour days seem harsh. Can any current Cornelll Law students let me know if this rumor is actually true?


That does suck but you are going to have to be putting in a ton of time at Fordham as well. Because you are fucked if you don't get top 10%. Good luck with that.


Good point!

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Re: Fordham vs Cornell?

Postby fsohn » Tue Dec 29, 2009 12:51 pm

sibley wrote:Cornell's not even ALL Ivy. I have a friend who was in their agricultural program. No Ivy standing with that... it's state funded. Half state, half ivy. Weird freaking school.


This is a pernicious myth started by LAS students. Again, the Ivy League is a sports league. Attending the Ag school does not mean you are not in the Ivy League. There is no such thing as the "real" Cornell.

fsohn
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Re: Fordham vs Cornell?

Postby fsohn » Tue Dec 29, 2009 12:52 pm

mbw wrote:
kurama20 wrote:
rookhawk wrote:I cringe at this thread but its probably because I'm a parent and I see things differently today.

Beyond being a success in your own career, the greatest gift you can give your descendents is a legacy. If you're not upper class by birth with a name for yourself, for God's sake go to Ivy League Cornell over the other choice. Heriditary wealth is built one brick at a time.

But what do I know? I grew up on the wrong side of the tracks. I'd gladly meet you with pistols at dawn for the chance to go to Cornell and give myself and my progeny a better life. Ivy families breed more ivy grads and with equal determination, the ivy kid is going to have a hell of a lot easier time making the key business/alumni networking connections to propel themselves into the upper class. (I say this based on my own experience observing my wife's multi-generational ivy family)



GOOD post. And something that isn't often mentioned/thought about on here. This is doubly true for the OP since she's URM.


I've read all the subsequent posts, but came back to quote these two, as I think they strike to the heart of the issue.

I have to chuckle when I read that the Ivy League is ONLY a sports league and Cornell isn't even a REAL Ivy anyway. Generally, I don't claim to have some sort of added knowledge regarding law school issues just because of my age - however, in this case, 20+ years of work/life experience may enhance my perspective just a tad. "Lay prestige" doesn't exist only on TLS - you'll find that in many, if not most, work and social situations, something as ridiculous as the name of ones educational institutions has an inordinate influence how one is perceived by others. For those of us (URMs in particular) who have been systematically blocked from flaunting such pedigrees for centuries, we understand the rules of the game pretty well, and, as rookhawk stated above, recognize how generational pedigrees are even more game-changing.

I have a friend who turned down a full-paid scholly at non-Ivy T-10 for much less money at an Ivy T-10 - Their simple comment? "Who would have thought a [URM] from [large inner-city area] could go to [big-ivy]?" Somehow, I don't think that I would have found myself walking around any of my other accepted schools like I did Cornell this fall, thinking to myself, "Self, you're the first woman in your family to even go to college (well, since we NDNs got kicked out of Dartmouth), and you're at an Ivy law school." Never underestimate the importance of people's dreams.


While goals are important to keep people going, goals don't pay the bills.

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MC Southstar
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Re: Fordham vs Cornell?

Postby MC Southstar » Tue Dec 29, 2009 12:55 pm

fsohn wrote:While goals are important to keep people going, goals don't pay the bills.


Cornell doesn't pay the bills? Is that a joke? Compared to what, Harvard?

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Helmholtz
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Re: Fordham vs Cornell?

Postby Helmholtz » Tue Dec 29, 2009 12:56 pm

shadowfrost000 wrote:
fsohn wrote:While goals are important to keep people going, goals don't pay the bills.


Cornell doesn't pay the bills? Is that a joke? Compared to what, Harvard?


Compared to Fordham.




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