Fordham vs Cornell?

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09042014
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Re: Fordham vs Cornell?

Postby 09042014 » Mon Dec 28, 2009 2:16 am

fsohn wrote:
Sigh. I give up. Jump in to the deep end, OP, if you will, but be damn prepared to swim. You'll more than likely be doing it for a long, long time


I don't get why going to cornell is jumping into the deep end, and fordham isn't.

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MC Southstar
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Re: Fordham vs Cornell?

Postby MC Southstar » Mon Dec 28, 2009 2:18 am

Desert Fox wrote:
fsohn wrote:
Sigh. I give up. Jump in to the deep end, OP, if you will, but be damn prepared to swim. You'll more than likely be doing it for a long, long time


I don't get why going to cornell is jumping into the deep end, and fordham isn't.


I think he's just really pessimistic about his own situation.

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bilbobaggins
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Re: Fordham vs Cornell?

Postby bilbobaggins » Mon Dec 28, 2009 4:42 am

fsohn wrote:
galahad85 wrote:
fsohn wrote:
To suggest that OP would be unreasonable in choosing Fordham ITE, with a rational attitude of debt aversion and strong personal reasons for staying in NYC, is simply not a good argument at all.


Why would being debt-averse make someone want to pay full-price at the lower-ranked school? They'd be saving no money, but taking lower job prospects. Fordham is actually even MORE expensive than Cornell, once you factor in NYC COL. (remember, the OP was asking about Fordham @ sticker, not Fordham w/ $$$)


At the risk of sounding exapserated, why do people not understand WTF I am saying? Let me break it down for y'all.

I understand that OP has no money at Fordham. I am assuming that OP also has no money at Cornell.

The fact of the matter is that at both schools in the New Legal Hiring Order, you are more likely than not to be left out of the Big Law moneypot.

You run a substantial risk of incurring debts you will be unable to pay back for about a decade at both schools.

The chance of being debt ridden is high at Cornell.

The chance of being debt ridden is higher at Fordham.

The amount of difference between the two schools is such that if you have personal reasons for staying in NYC, you should stay.

If you are going to incur the debt, you may as well be happy while doing it.


You can't substantiate that claim.

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Re: Fordham vs Cornell?

Postby rookhawk » Mon Dec 28, 2009 4:51 am

I cringe at this thread but its probably because I'm a parent and I see things differently today.

Beyond being a success in your own career, the greatest gift you can give your descendents is a legacy. If you're not upper class by birth with a name for yourself, for God's sake go to Ivy League Cornell over the other choice. Heriditary wealth is built one brick at a time.

But what do I know? I grew up on the wrong side of the tracks. I'd gladly meet you with pistols at dawn for the chance to go to Cornell and give myself and my progeny a better life. Ivy families breed more ivy grads and with equal determination, the ivy kid is going to have a hell of a lot easier time making the key business/alumni networking connections to propel themselves into the upper class. (I say this based on my own experience observing my wife's multi-generational ivy family)

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Re: Fordham vs Cornell?

Postby worldtraveler » Mon Dec 28, 2009 6:03 am

rookhawk wrote:I cringe at this thread but its probably because I'm a parent and I see things differently today.

Beyond being a success in your own career, the greatest gift you can give your descendents is a legacy. If you're not upper class by birth with a name for yourself, for God's sake go to Ivy League Cornell over the other choice. Heriditary wealth is built one brick at a time.

But what do I know? I grew up on the wrong side of the tracks. I'd gladly meet you with pistols at dawn for the chance to go to Cornell and give myself and my progeny a better life. Ivy families breed more ivy grads and with equal determination, the ivy kid is going to have a hell of a lot easier time making the key business/alumni networking connections to propel themselves into the upper class. (I say this based on my own experience observing my wife's multi-generational ivy family)


:?:

09042014
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Re: Fordham vs Cornell?

Postby 09042014 » Mon Dec 28, 2009 9:27 am

rookhawk wrote:I cringe at this thread but its probably because I'm a parent and I see things differently today.

Beyond being a success in your own career, the greatest gift you can give your descendents is a legacy. If you're not upper class by birth with a name for yourself, for God's sake go to Ivy League Cornell over the other choice. Heriditary wealth is built one brick at a time.

But what do I know? I grew up on the wrong side of the tracks. I'd gladly meet you with pistols at dawn for the chance to go to Cornell and give myself and my progeny a better life. Ivy families breed more ivy grads and with equal determination, the ivy kid is going to have a hell of a lot easier time making the key business/alumni networking connections to propel themselves into the upper class. (I say this based on my own experience observing my wife's multi-generational ivy family)


The Ivy league is a football conference. There are better law schools than Cornell, but Fordham isn't one of them.

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Re: Fordham vs Cornell?

Postby fsohn » Mon Dec 28, 2009 12:29 pm

bilbobaggins wrote:
fsohn wrote:
galahad85 wrote:
fsohn wrote:
To suggest that OP would be unreasonable in choosing Fordham ITE, with a rational attitude of debt aversion and strong personal reasons for staying in NYC, is simply not a good argument at all.


Why would being debt-averse make someone want to pay full-price at the lower-ranked school? They'd be saving no money, but taking lower job prospects. Fordham is actually even MORE expensive than Cornell, once you factor in NYC COL. (remember, the OP was asking about Fordham @ sticker, not Fordham w/ $$$)


At the risk of sounding exapserated, why do people not understand WTF I am saying? Let me break it down for y'all.

I understand that OP has no money at Fordham. I am assuming that OP also has no money at Cornell.

The fact of the matter is that at both schools in the New Legal Hiring Order, you are more likely than not to be left out of the Big Law moneypot.

You run a substantial risk of incurring debts you will be unable to pay back for about a decade at both schools.

The chance of being debt ridden is high at Cornell.

The chance of being debt ridden is higher at Fordham.

The amount of difference between the two schools is such that if you have personal reasons for staying in NYC, you should stay.

If you are going to incur the debt, you may as well be happy while doing it.


You can't substantiate that claim.


You, sir, are free to live in a dream world.

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Re: Fordham vs Cornell?

Postby kurama20 » Mon Dec 28, 2009 12:58 pm

rookhawk wrote:I cringe at this thread but its probably because I'm a parent and I see things differently today.

Beyond being a success in your own career, the greatest gift you can give your descendents is a legacy. If you're not upper class by birth with a name for yourself, for God's sake go to Ivy League Cornell over the other choice. Heriditary wealth is built one brick at a time.

But what do I know? I grew up on the wrong side of the tracks. I'd gladly meet you with pistols at dawn for the chance to go to Cornell and give myself and my progeny a better life. Ivy families breed more ivy grads and with equal determination, the ivy kid is going to have a hell of a lot easier time making the key business/alumni networking connections to propel themselves into the upper class. (I say this based on my own experience observing my wife's multi-generational ivy family)



GOOD post. And something that isn't often mentioned/thought about on here. This is doubly true for the OP since she's URM.

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Re: Fordham vs Cornell?

Postby fsohn » Mon Dec 28, 2009 2:18 pm

Desert Fox wrote:
rookhawk wrote:I cringe at this thread but its probably because I'm a parent and I see things differently today.

Beyond being a success in your own career, the greatest gift you can give your descendents is a legacy. If you're not upper class by birth with a name for yourself, for God's sake go to Ivy League Cornell over the other choice. Heriditary wealth is built one brick at a time.

But what do I know? I grew up on the wrong side of the tracks. I'd gladly meet you with pistols at dawn for the chance to go to Cornell and give myself and my progeny a better life. Ivy families breed more ivy grads and with equal determination, the ivy kid is going to have a hell of a lot easier time making the key business/alumni networking connections to propel themselves into the upper class. (I say this based on my own experience observing my wife's multi-generational ivy family)


The Ivy league is a football conference. There are better law schools than Cornell, but Fordham isn't one of them.


The sentiment in this post is correct. The Ivy League is populated with privileged rich kids going, even to law school, on their mommy and daddy's dime. Ignore the name, and look for quality.

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Rand M.
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Re: Fordham vs Cornell?

Postby Rand M. » Mon Dec 28, 2009 2:25 pm

kurama20 wrote:
rookhawk wrote:I cringe at this thread but its probably because I'm a parent and I see things differently today.

Beyond being a success in your own career, the greatest gift you can give your descendents is a legacy. If you're not upper class by birth with a name for yourself, for God's sake go to Ivy League Cornell over the other choice. Heriditary wealth is built one brick at a time.

But what do I know? I grew up on the wrong side of the tracks. I'd gladly meet you with pistols at dawn for the chance to go to Cornell and give myself and my progeny a better life. Ivy families breed more ivy grads and with equal determination, the ivy kid is going to have a hell of a lot easier time making the key business/alumni networking connections to propel themselves into the upper class. (I say this based on my own experience observing my wife's multi-generational ivy family)



GOOD post. And something that isn't often mentioned/thought about on here. This is doubly true for the OP since she's URM.


+ a whole bunch

cicely101
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Re: Fordham vs Cornell?

Postby cicely101 » Mon Dec 28, 2009 4:39 pm

So far, I'm leaning towards Cornell, but I'll be sad to leave the city and my family :?

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Philo38
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Re: Fordham vs Cornell?

Postby Philo38 » Mon Dec 28, 2009 4:49 pm

cicely101 wrote:So far, I'm leaning towards Cornell, but I'll be sad to leave the city and my family :?


If I had to put my vote in here I'm saying Cornell. The way this job market looks you want to give yourself the best opportunity you possibly can. Plus, new experiences are valuable right? Manhattan - Ithaca - Manhattan, here's to your rollercoaster of living experience.

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dudester
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Re: Fordham vs Cornell?

Postby dudester » Mon Dec 28, 2009 4:54 pm

cicely101 wrote:So far, I'm leaning towards Cornell, but I'll be sad to leave the city and my family :?


It's not like you're moving to China..

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Re: Fordham vs Cornell?

Postby awesomepossum » Mon Dec 28, 2009 5:09 pm

dudester wrote:
cicely101 wrote:So far, I'm leaning towards Cornell, but I'll be sad to leave the city and my family :?


It's not like you're moving to China..


truth.

don't be such a pansy.

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Re: Fordham vs Cornell?

Postby ashleigh » Mon Dec 28, 2009 5:11 pm

cicely101 wrote:So far, I'm leaning towards Cornell, but I'll be sad to leave the city and my family :?


I'll most likely be leaving my family in california for penn and I'm incredibly tight with them so I know how hard it can be. but the way I see it is:

- you can always come back for summer associate positions in NYC
- being a student again means more time off for holidays/spring break when you can go back home
- at the end of the day, its only 3 yrs of your life for a degree that'll give you more freedom, flexibility, and opportunity for you and your family's future
- you're only a 4 hr drive away so can even come back home on long weekends!

really doesn't seem that bad to me. there are worse things.

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Philo38
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Re: Fordham vs Cornell?

Postby Philo38 » Mon Dec 28, 2009 5:15 pm

awesomepossum wrote:
dudester wrote:
cicely101 wrote:So far, I'm leaning towards Cornell, but I'll be sad to leave the city and my family :?


It's not like you're moving to China..


truth.

don't be such a pansy.


Yup.

Plus:

1. Cornell is a better school (T14).
2. Cornell has a better campus (IMO).
3. Cornell has a far better library.
4. Cornell will probably be cheaper once you factor in COL.
5. Ithaca has less distractions.
6. It's still driving distance from NYC.
7. You will be able to get a nicer place in Ithaca.
8. Crazy awesome Ivy league hockey rivalries would be delightfully elitist.

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Re: Fordham vs Cornell?

Postby Bankhead » Mon Dec 28, 2009 5:48 pm

rookhawk wrote:I cringe at this thread but its probably because I'm a parent and I see things differently today.

Beyond being a success in your own career, the greatest gift you can give your descendents is a legacy. If you're not upper class by birth with a name for yourself, for God's sake go to Ivy League Cornell over the other choice. Heriditary wealth is built one brick at a time.

But what do I know? I grew up on the wrong side of the tracks. I'd gladly meet you with pistols at dawn for the chance to go to Cornell and give myself and my progeny a better life. Ivy families breed more ivy grads and with equal determination, the ivy kid is going to have a hell of a lot easier time making the key business/alumni networking connections to propel themselves into the upper class. (I say this based on my own experience observing my wife's multi-generational ivy family)


This is a bit deluded. You speak as if going to Cornell Law automatically makes you a Kennedy or something.

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Re: Fordham vs Cornell?

Postby sibley » Mon Dec 28, 2009 5:49 pm

Bankhead wrote:
rookhawk wrote:I cringe at this thread but its probably because I'm a parent and I see things differently today.

Beyond being a success in your own career, the greatest gift you can give your descendents is a legacy. If you're not upper class by birth with a name for yourself, for God's sake go to Ivy League Cornell over the other choice. Heriditary wealth is built one brick at a time.

But what do I know? I grew up on the wrong side of the tracks. I'd gladly meet you with pistols at dawn for the chance to go to Cornell and give myself and my progeny a better life. Ivy families breed more ivy grads and with equal determination, the ivy kid is going to have a hell of a lot easier time making the key business/alumni networking connections to propel themselves into the upper class. (I say this based on my own experience observing my wife's multi-generational ivy family)


This is a bit deluded. You speak as if going to Cornell Law automatically makes you a Kennedy or something.


+1. My boyfriend's mother went to Hofstra Law. His socioeconomic status is just fine.

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beesknees
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Re: Fordham vs Cornell?

Postby beesknees » Mon Dec 28, 2009 6:07 pm

Bankhead wrote:
rookhawk wrote:I cringe at this thread but its probably because I'm a parent and I see things differently today.

Beyond being a success in your own career, the greatest gift you can give your descendents is a legacy. If you're not upper class by birth with a name for yourself, for God's sake go to Ivy League Cornell over the other choice. Heriditary wealth is built one brick at a time.

But what do I know? I grew up on the wrong side of the tracks. I'd gladly meet you with pistols at dawn for the chance to go to Cornell and give myself and my progeny a better life. Ivy families breed more ivy grads and with equal determination, the ivy kid is going to have a hell of a lot easier time making the key business/alumni networking connections to propel themselves into the upper class. (I say this based on my own experience observing my wife's multi-generational ivy family)


This is a bit deluded. You speak as if going to Cornell Law automatically makes you a Kennedy or something.


This is true, but putting yourself into a decent T14 school among potentially high earners can generate better networking opportunities, IMO. They may be a lot of people living on mommy and daddy's money, but who knows who they know? Also, as I meet more people in the upper socioeconomic strata, I have come to realize that like mixes with like. My rich, daddy's-little girl friend has similar friends and gotten internships and jobs through those contacts.

I can personally say coming from the wrong side of town myself when I was a kid, my mother's decision to move me to my Grandma's where I could go to the school where all the rich kids go to high school did wonders for me. It does matter what you do with your education, but being in the company of high achievers helps a lot.

Of course, going to Cornell vs Fordham isn't the same disparity as going to a ghetto high school were half of your friends get pregnant at 16 and drop out and teachers don't give a damn vs going to hotty totty high school where everyone wants Harvard and Yale for their undergrad and the teachers expect that sort of excellence from you. Just saying I understand what rookhawk is getting at.

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Re: Fordham vs Cornell?

Postby dresden doll » Mon Dec 28, 2009 6:15 pm

beesknees wrote:
Bankhead wrote:
rookhawk wrote:I cringe at this thread but its probably because I'm a parent and I see things differently today.

Beyond being a success in your own career, the greatest gift you can give your descendents is a legacy. If you're not upper class by birth with a name for yourself, for God's sake go to Ivy League Cornell over the other choice. Heriditary wealth is built one brick at a time.

But what do I know? I grew up on the wrong side of the tracks. I'd gladly meet you with pistols at dawn for the chance to go to Cornell and give myself and my progeny a better life. Ivy families breed more ivy grads and with equal determination, the ivy kid is going to have a hell of a lot easier time making the key business/alumni networking connections to propel themselves into the upper class. (I say this based on my own experience observing my wife's multi-generational ivy family)


This is a bit deluded. You speak as if going to Cornell Law automatically makes you a Kennedy or something.


This is true, but putting yourself into a decent T14 school among potentially high earners can generate better networking opportunities, IMO. They may be a lot of people living on mommy and daddy's money, but who knows who they know? Also, as I meet more people in the upper socioeconomic strata, I have come to realize that like mixes with like. My rich, daddy's-little girl friend has similar friends and gotten internships and jobs through those contacts.

I can personally say coming from the wrong side of town myself when I was a kid, my mother's decision to move me to my Grandma's where I could go to the school where all the rich kids go to high school did wonders for me. It does matter what you do with your education, but being in the company of high achievers helps a lot.

Of course, going to Cornell vs Fordham isn't the same disparity as going to a ghetto high school were half of your friends get pregnant at 16 and drop out and teachers don't give a damn vs going to hotty totty high school where everyone wants Harvard and Yale for their undergrad and the teachers expect that sort of excellence from you. Just saying I understand what rookhawk is getting at.


This is very credited. I am from another country, went to a shitty UG and never really had the chance to associate with high achievers until now. Being in their company does help.

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Philo38
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Re: Fordham vs Cornell?

Postby Philo38 » Mon Dec 28, 2009 6:18 pm

dresden doll wrote:
beesknees wrote:
Bankhead wrote:
rookhawk wrote:I cringe at this thread but its probably because I'm a parent and I see things differently today.

Beyond being a success in your own career, the greatest gift you can give your descendents is a legacy. If you're not upper class by birth with a name for yourself, for God's sake go to Ivy League Cornell over the other choice. Heriditary wealth is built one brick at a time.

But what do I know? I grew up on the wrong side of the tracks. I'd gladly meet you with pistols at dawn for the chance to go to Cornell and give myself and my progeny a better life. Ivy families breed more ivy grads and with equal determination, the ivy kid is going to have a hell of a lot easier time making the key business/alumni networking connections to propel themselves into the upper class. (I say this based on my own experience observing my wife's multi-generational ivy family)


This is a bit deluded. You speak as if going to Cornell Law automatically makes you a Kennedy or something.


This is true, but putting yourself into a decent T14 school among potentially high earners can generate better networking opportunities, IMO. They may be a lot of people living on mommy and daddy's money, but who knows who they know? Also, as I meet more people in the upper socioeconomic strata, I have come to realize that like mixes with like. My rich, daddy's-little girl friend has similar friends and gotten internships and jobs through those contacts.

I can personally say coming from the wrong side of town myself when I was a kid, my mother's decision to move me to my Grandma's where I could go to the school where all the rich kids go to high school did wonders for me. It does matter what you do with your education, but being in the company of high achievers helps a lot.

Of course, going to Cornell vs Fordham isn't the same disparity as going to a ghetto high school were half of your friends get pregnant at 16 and drop out and teachers don't give a damn vs going to hotty totty high school where everyone wants Harvard and Yale for their undergrad and the teachers expect that sort of excellence from you. Just saying I understand what rookhawk is getting at.


This is very credited. I am from another country, went to a shitty UG and never really had the chance to associate with high achievers until now. Being in their company does help.


Seriously. Keys the the kingdom right?

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dresden doll
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Re: Fordham vs Cornell?

Postby dresden doll » Mon Dec 28, 2009 6:23 pm

Philo38 wrote:
dresden doll wrote:This is very credited. I am from another country, went to a shitty UG and never really had the chance to associate with high achievers until now. Being in their company does help.


Seriously. Keys the the kingdom right?


Indeed. :)

Seriously, though, being among high achievers is useful on several levels. Aside from the networking aspect, they tend to be very bright, funny and impressive. Being around them has done a bit to encourage me to work on myself, which is a very positive thing.

When I was in UG, I had a distinct impression I was among the people who weren't really going anywhere with their lives. From what I've seen of them since, it appears I was right. My LS classmates, though - as well as other high achieving friends I now have that attend other T14s - definitely strike me as individuals who will be going places. And being around them does a bit to persuade you that you might be going places, too.

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excelsiorcaelo
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Re: Fordham vs Cornell?

Postby excelsiorcaelo » Mon Dec 28, 2009 6:25 pm

ITT: TLSers suck at the sweet teat of prestige.

Not that I disagree. This is just business as usual. :D

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beesknees
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Re: Fordham vs Cornell?

Postby beesknees » Mon Dec 28, 2009 6:30 pm

excelsiorcaelo wrote:ITT: TLSers suck at the sweet teat of prestige.

Not that I disagree. This is just business as usual. :D


Yes, and if you come from a family where many could not spell prestige, you want it even more. Don't discount the hunger for upward mobility from those who didn't come from middle class backgrounds. But with law school being so incredibly expensive, I don't see how it can be anything more than a dream.

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dresden doll
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Re: Fordham vs Cornell?

Postby dresden doll » Mon Dec 28, 2009 6:31 pm

excelsiorcaelo wrote:ITT: TLSers suck at the sweet teat of prestige.

Not that I disagree. This is just business as usual. :D


You had better not be disagreeing, Mr. Yale UG/HLS.




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