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I've been thinking about this choice a lot too...got into both, no $ at either. I agree with those who said that living in a closet for $2000/month is not attractive, nor is the lack of campus at NYU, or the big class sizes. However, I don't want to go into biglaw and it seems like NYU might have better options for gov / PI work. But...Philadelphia just seems like such a better (and cheaper) place to live. And I don't want to work in NYC...

so torn....

tintin wrote:I've been thinking about this choice a lot too...got into both, no $ at either. I agree with those who said that living in a closet for $2000/month is not attractive, nor is the lack of campus at NYU, or the big class sizes. However, I don't want to go into biglaw and it seems like NYU might have better options for gov / PI work. But...Philadelphia just seems like such a better (and cheaper) place to live. And I don't want to work in NYC...

so torn....

That's a really hard situation to be in. You should visit both schools, that's the only way to really choose at this point.

I think a lot of people are ignoring how much better NYU's LRAP is than Penn's TolLRAP. NYU gives you better options for PI work coming out even if you don't get a penny of finaid. That being said, if you're SURE you're just pushing for 160k/year, then I think it comes down to personal preference, as both place very well. If you went to UPenn undergrad, my feeling is that you should go elsewhere, but that's personal as well.

I heard TolLRAP is supposed to improve soon -- can anybody fill us in about that?

kurama20 wrote:

tintin wrote:I've been thinking about this choice a lot too...got into both, no $ at either. I agree with those who said that living in a closet for $2000/month is not attractive, nor is the lack of campus at NYU, or the big class sizes. However, I don't want to go into biglaw and it seems like NYU might have better options for gov / PI work. But...Philadelphia just seems like such a better (and cheaper) place to live. And I don't want to work in NYC...

so torn....

That's a really hard situation to be in. You should visit both schools, that's the only way to really choose at this point.

And yet, at the end of the day, a hard situation I'd love to be in.

underdawg wrote:there are like 5 hipsters at the law school

Thank you.

Not to mention, fuck all this noise about NYU being filled with "hippie save the world types". I came here looking for that and found out that just like any other t-5 most of the kids here want to go into BIGLAW, academia, or clerkships after graduation. Sure you might have a higher % of kids who are generally interested in PI, and the school certainly encourages keeping an open mind about it but at the end of the day NYU is still a factory for big NYC firms.

really? my 1L, seemed like everyone wanted to save the world, somewhere between 1L and 2L, we realized these loans sure look bigger and bigger (plus nothing like the rigors of OCI to make everyone believe that biglaw is what they actually want)

I was actually just kidding about the hipsters, haha. I figured they wouldn't be going to law school, even though that'd just be so ironic.

anyone want to chime in on this- for someone who will likely not have much debt (if any) coming out of law school, and who definitely does not want to do biglaw but is interested in PI/gov/academia, what are the disadvantages/advantages of Penn v. NYU? Is NYU generally considered a significant step above Penn in the legal world?

tintin wrote:I've been thinking about this choice a lot too...got into both, no $ at either. I agree with those who said that living in a closet for $2000/month is not attractive, nor is the lack of campus at NYU, or the big class sizes. However, I don't want to go into biglaw and it seems like NYU might have better options for gov / PI work. But...Philadelphia just seems like such a better (and cheaper) place to live. And I don't want to work in NYC...

so torn....

I'm a little confused about how you know you didn't get $ at NYU. I don't think they've released the financial aid information for admitted students yet, right?

tintin wrote:anyone want to chime in on this- for someone who will likely not have much debt (if any) coming out of law school, and who definitely does not want to do biglaw but is interested in PI/gov/academia, what are the disadvantages/advantages of Penn v. NYU? Is NYU generally considered a significant step above Penn in the legal world?

2009 Rep scores for USNWR

Academic:

1. Harvard University (4.8)
1. Yale University (4.8)
3. Stanford University (4.7)
4. Columbia University (4.6)
4. University of Chicago (4.6)
6. New York University (4.5)
6. University of California, Berkeley (4.5)
8. University of Michigan, Ann Arbor (4.4)
9. University of Pennsylvania (4.3)
9. University of Virginia (4.3)
11. Cornell University (4.2)
11. Duke University (4.2)
13. Georgetown University (4.1)
13. University of Texas, Austin (4.1)
15. Northwestern University (4.0)

Lawyer/Judge:

1. Harvard University (4.8)
1. Stanford University (4.8)
1. Yale University (4.8)
4. Columbia University (4.6)
4. University of Chicago (4.6)
4. University of Virginia (4.6)
7. New York University (4.5)
7. University of California, Berkeley (4.5)
7. University of Michigan, Ann Arbor (4.5)
10. Duke University (4.4)
10. Georgetown University (4.4)
10. University of Pennsylvania (4.4)
13. Cornell University (4.3)
13. Northwestern University (4.3)
15. University of Texas, Austin (4.2)

kittenmittons wrote:

tintin wrote:anyone want to chime in on this- for someone who will likely not have much debt (if any) coming out of law school, and who definitely does not want to do biglaw but is interested in PI/gov/academia, what are the disadvantages/advantages of Penn v. NYU? Is NYU generally considered a significant step above Penn in the legal world?

2009 Rep scores for USNWR

Academic:

1. Harvard University (4.
1. Yale University (4.
3. Stanford University (4.7)
4. Columbia University (4.6)
4. University of Chicago (4.6)
6. New York University (4.5)
6. University of California, Berkeley (4.5)
8. University of Michigan, Ann Arbor (4.4)
9. University of Pennsylvania (4.3)
9. University of Virginia (4.3)
11. Cornell University (4.2)
11. Duke University (4.2)
13. Georgetown University (4.1)
13. University of Texas, Austin (4.1)
15. Northwestern University (4.0)

Lawyer/Judge:

1. Harvard University (4.
1. Stanford University (4.
1. Yale University (4.
4. Columbia University (4.6)
4. University of Chicago (4.6)
4. University of Virginia (4.6)
7. New York University (4.5)
7. University of California, Berkeley (4.5)
7. University of Michigan, Ann Arbor (4.5)
10. Duke University (4.4)
10. Georgetown University (4.4)
10. University of Pennsylvania (4.4)
13. Cornell University (4.3)
13. Northwestern University (4.3)
15. University of Texas, Austin (4.2)

The bolded are the one's you should focus on Rintin.

i feel like people on this site grossly overestimate COL in NYC. Yes, it is expensive if you live in the NYU dorms and they are relatively shitty, I wont argue with that. If you're willing to commute for 20 min or so then you can easily find affordable places in Brooklyn/Queens/Jersey City/Roosevelt Island. I commuted from Brooklyn to the city in undergrad and at 40 minutes it wasn't a bad commute at all, it gave me extra time to study or just relax before my day started. You can get a 2 BR where I live for 1400 and its a very safe hipster free place. The COL is def worth it to live in such an awesome city IMO but then again I've never lived elsewhere. I realize commuting is a big deal to some though but even so NYC is not that expensive. If I'm lucky enough to get into NYU or if I get $$ at Fordham I'm prob going to move to the Financial District where I can share a studio in a lux building with my bf for $900 each(hes a broker so I know decent $1800 studios exist). Academic wise I would say Penn and NYU are equal in most areas so all I'm trying to say is that NYU shouldn't be discounted because of COL.

eviee wrote:i feel like people on this site grossly overestimate COL in NYC. Yes, it is expensive if you live in the NYU dorms and they are relatively shitty, I wont argue with that. If you're willing to commute for 20 min or so then you can easily find affordable places in Brooklyn/Queens/Jersey City/Roosevelt Island. I commuted from Brooklyn to the city in undergrad and at 40 minutes it wasn't a bad commute at all, it gave me extra time to study or just relax before my day started. You can get a 2 BR where I live for 1400 and its a very safe hipster free place. The COL is def worth it to live in such an awesome city IMO but then again I've never lived elsewhere. I realize commuting is a big deal to some though but even so NYC is not that expensive. If I'm lucky enough to get into NYU or if I get $$ at Fordham I'm prob going to move to the Financial District where I can share a studio in a lux building with my bf for $900 each(hes a broker so I know decent $1800 studios exist). Academic wise I would say Penn and NYU are equal in most areas so all I'm trying to say is that NYU shouldn't be discounted because of COL.

OTOH you can get a 2 bedroom in University City for $800 with a 2 minute commute.

puppins wrote:

eviee wrote:i feel like people on this site grossly overestimate COL in NYC. Yes, it is expensive if you live in the NYU dorms and they are relatively shitty, I wont argue with that. If you're willing to commute for 20 min or so then you can easily find affordable places in Brooklyn/Queens/Jersey City/Roosevelt Island. I commuted from Brooklyn to the city in undergrad and at 40 minutes it wasn't a bad commute at all, it gave me extra time to study or just relax before my day started. You can get a 2 BR where I live for 1400 and its a very safe hipster free place. The COL is def worth it to live in such an awesome city IMO but then again I've never lived elsewhere. I realize commuting is a big deal to some though but even so NYC is not that expensive. If I'm lucky enough to get into NYU or if I get $$ at Fordham I'm prob going to move to the Financial District where I can share a studio in a lux building with my bf for $900 each(hes a broker so I know decent $1800 studios exist). Academic wise I would say Penn and NYU are equal in most areas so all I'm trying to say is that NYU shouldn't be discounted because of COL.

OTOH you can get a 2 bedroom in University City for $800 with a 2 minute commute.

I'm not discounting that fact, just trying to say that a lot of people don't realize the other options available in NYC. As for me personally, I'm used to living in a small apt so I'd rather pay $900 to split a studio in NYC then $800 for a 2 BR in Philly.

eviee wrote:i feel like people on this site grossly overestimate COL in NYC. Yes, it is expensive if you live in the NYU dorms and they are relatively shitty, I wont argue with that. If you're willing to commute for 20 min or so then you can easily find affordable places in Brooklyn/Queens/Jersey City/Roosevelt Island. I commuted from Brooklyn to the city in undergrad and at 40 minutes it wasn't a bad commute at all, it gave me extra time to study or just relax before my day started. You can get a 2 BR where I live for 1400 and its a very safe hipster free place. The COL is def worth it to live in such an awesome city IMO but then again I've never lived elsewhere. I realize commuting is a big deal to some though but even so NYC is not that expensive. If I'm lucky enough to get into NYU or if I get $$ at Fordham I'm prob going to move to the Financial District where I can share a studio in a lux building with my bf for $900 each(hes a broker so I know decent $1800 studios exist). Academic wise I would say Penn and NYU are equal in most areas so all I'm trying to say is that NYU shouldn't be discounted because of COL.

Also, if it's the closet issue rather than the cost that gets your goat, you can take that $2000+ a month to the places eviee mentions and get a very decent-sized apartment for it.

eviee wrote: I'm not discounting that fact, just trying to say that a lot of people don't realize the other options available in NYC. As for me personally, I'm used to living in a small apt so I'd rather pay $900 to split a studio in NYC then $800 for a 2 BR in Philly.

I just think that, while there are a lot of reasons someone might prefer NYC over Philly, COL is not one of them. You might prefer 1/2 a studio for $900 rather than 1/2 an apartment with your own bedroom for $400 to be in NYC instead of Philly, and so might a lot of other people, but that doesn't mean that the COL isn't very different and to a lot of people a big deal.

Not everyone has a rich SO to mooch off of. ^__^

I've lived in NJ my whole life and so am very familiar with Philly and NYC.

Why are many of you assuming that both cities are similar in terms of opportunities in the city and the quality of the city? Philly isn't in NYC's league.

gossipgirl wrote:I've lived in NJ my whole life and so am very familiar with Philly and NYC.

Why are many of you assuming that both cities are similar in terms of opportunities in the city and the quality of the city? Philly isn't in NYC's league.

I agree that I'd rather live in NYC for those reasons, but I could care less while I'm still in school. All I need is a decent nightlife and Philly more than offers that.

eviee wrote:

puppins wrote:

eviee wrote:i feel like people on this site grossly overestimate COL in NYC. Yes, it is expensive if you live in the NYU dorms and they are relatively shitty, I wont argue with that. If you're willing to commute for 20 min or so then you can easily find affordable places in Brooklyn/Queens/Jersey City/Roosevelt Island. I commuted from Brooklyn to the city in undergrad and at 40 minutes it wasn't a bad commute at all, it gave me extra time to study or just relax before my day started. You can get a 2 BR where I live for 1400 and its a very safe hipster free place. The COL is def worth it to live in such an awesome city IMO but then again I've never lived elsewhere. I realize commuting is a big deal to some though but even so NYC is not that expensive. If I'm lucky enough to get into NYU or if I get $$ at Fordham I'm prob going to move to the Financial District where I can share a studio in a lux building with my bf for $900 each(hes a broker so I know decent $1800 studios exist). Academic wise I would say Penn and NYU are equal in most areas so all I'm trying to say is that NYU shouldn't be discounted because of COL.

OTOH you can get a 2 bedroom in University City for $800 with a 2 minute commute.

I'm not discounting that fact, just trying to say that a lot of people don't realize the other options available in NYC. As for me personally, I'm used to living in a small apt so I'd rather pay $900 to split a studio in NYC then $800 for a 2 BR in Philly.

2 people living in a studio for $900 EACH! (one bathroom) you don't see anything wrong with that....:/

FuturehoyaLawya wrote:

eviee wrote:

puppins wrote:

eviee wrote:i feel like people on this site grossly overestimate COL in NYC. Yes, it is expensive if you live in the NYU dorms and they are relatively shitty, I wont argue with that. If you're willing to commute for 20 min or so then you can easily find affordable places in Brooklyn/Queens/Jersey City/Roosevelt Island. I commuted from Brooklyn to the city in undergrad and at 40 minutes it wasn't a bad commute at all, it gave me extra time to study or just relax before my day started. You can get a 2 BR where I live for 1400 and its a very safe hipster free place. The COL is def worth it to live in such an awesome city IMO but then again I've never lived elsewhere. I realize commuting is a big deal to some though but even so NYC is not that expensive. If I'm lucky enough to get into NYU or if I get $$ at Fordham I'm prob going to move to the Financial District where I can share a studio in a lux building with my bf for $900 each(hes a broker so I know decent $1800 studios exist). Academic wise I would say Penn and NYU are equal in most areas so all I'm trying to say is that NYU shouldn't be discounted because of COL.

OTOH you can get a 2 bedroom in University City for $800 with a 2 minute commute.

I'm not discounting that fact, just trying to say that a lot of people don't realize the other options available in NYC. As for me personally, I'm used to living in a small apt so I'd rather pay $900 to split a studio in NYC then $800 for a 2 BR in Philly.

2 people living in a studio for $900 EACH! (one bathroom) you don't see anything wrong with that....:/

you see something wrong with it cause you've never lived in NYC lol jk. If you read my original post I was just trying to show that there are lots of options available in NYC for those who go to school there. The $900 for a studio is what I would do for convenience and it wouldn't bother me cause I would be living with my bf who works long hours so I would have the apt to myself as lot and I would be studying most of the time anyway. It doesnt make a difference whether I study in a closet or a mansion but as for my down time i'd much rather spend it in nyc then philly

eviee wrote: you see something wrong with it cause you've never lived in NYC lol jk. If you read my original post I was just trying to show that there are lots of options available in NYC for those who go to school there. The $900 for a studio is what I would do for convenience and it wouldn't bother me cause I would be living with my bf who works long hours so I would have the apt to myself as lot and I would be studying most of the time anyway. It doesnt make a difference whether I study in a closet or a mansion but as for my down time i'd much rather spend it in nyc then philly

and that's a good reason to want to stay in NYC, but doesn't really support this:

eviee wrote:i feel like people on this site grossly overestimate COL in NYC.

what you've stating as "good deals" that prove that NYC COL is overestimated, I am just shocked that people are willing to pay that much.

puppins wrote:

eviee wrote: I'm not discounting that fact, just trying to say that a lot of people don't realize the other options available in NYC. As for me personally, I'm used to living in a small apt so I'd rather pay $900 to split a studio in NYC then $800 for a 2 BR in Philly.

I just think that, while there are a lot of reasons someone might prefer NYC over Philly, COL is not one of them. You might prefer 1/2 a studio for $900 rather than 1/2 an apartment with your own bedroom for $400 to be in NYC instead of Philly, and so might a lot of other people, but that doesn't mean that the COL isn't very different and to a lot of people a big deal.

+1

to me, its like saying, "sure you can go to iowa and get a place for $1800/month but since you can also get a place in NYC for the same amount, COL differences aren't much at all!"

and then, oh wait, the iowa place is a 3 bedroom house with a backyard and the NYC is a 500 sq foot studio with a view of a brick wall.

to each his own, I guess!

Lived in NYC for two years for work, and now living in Philly.

NYC really IS that expensive. Leaving rent aside, you have to realize that you are paying NYC prices for EVERYTHING. Grocery shopping? Be ready to pay 4 bucks for a carton of orange juice. Night out in the meatpacking district? Have fun with your $15 mixed drinks.

Almost everything you do in NYC is going to be more expensive than a small city like Philadelphia. As far as things to do, NYC definitely has more to do. But trust me, as 1Ls most of your time will be spent in the library.