Why go to a t-14 without a full ride?

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Why go to a t-14 without a full ride?

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Leeroy Jenkins

Post subject: Re: Why go to a t-14 without a full ride?

Posted: Mon Dec 21, 2009 8:54 pm

Joined: Sat Jun 07, 2008 10:19 pm
Archived Posts: 6820

shadowfrost000 wrote:

OMG IM FUcKED

yessir

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jason8821

Post subject: Re: Why go to a t-14 without a full ride?

Posted: Mon Dec 21, 2009 11:43 pm

Joined: Tue Oct 20, 2009 12:42 am
Archived Posts: 47

ggocat wrote:

jason8821 wrote:

I would love to hear from someone who really went all in, I mean i'm talking 200-250k+ in debt, and is doing fine 10 years out of law school, even more amazing would be if they didn't get Big Law.

You're going to have to wait about 10 years. You realize that 10 years ago law school tuition was much cheaper, right?

Valid Point, that I certainly overlooked. (Probably the reason LR practice was low today). Yeah, it looks like time will tell. Unfortunately those that are weary of debt are somewhat few and far between, or at least it seems. Most people I know don't give a shit about debt, especially in undergrad. It seems like there is a random distribution in undergrad where I went to school, if you had to take out 100k, you did (I know multiple people who did), if your parents paid for it, then you were debt free. Neither one of the two really give a shit or understand the concept of debt until they get out school. I feel even worse for those who jump straight into grad school without thinking about the consequences of going way over six figures in student loans, but banks are fucked up and so this trend will probably continue at least for a little while until America stops putting such a large emphasis on higher ed, and allowing everyone to attend undergrad/grad school, or both.

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Leeroy Jenkins

Post subject: Re: Why go to a t-14 without a full ride?

Posted: Mon Dec 21, 2009 11:50 pm

Joined: Sat Jun 07, 2008 10:19 pm
Archived Posts: 6820

thats because even the non stupid americans who go to school so you think they wouldn't be stupid are stupid

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kurama20

Post subject: Re: Why go to a t-14 without a full ride?

Posted: Mon Dec 21, 2009 11:59 pm

Joined: Thu May 24, 2007 5:04 pm
Archived Posts: 1742

awesomepossum wrote:

jason8821 wrote:

This of course assumes that you are not extremely wealthy, but even still, It seems that even if I do pull the high 160's or scrape 170's (allowing me at least a shot at some t-14 schools) I don't think I would ever attend. From what people are saying on here, less than 30% of people at these schools are getting into the "BigLaw Jobs" and it may even be lower than that. Wouldn't it make more sense to go somewhere like Temple, Iowa, Indiana, Pitt etc. (low cost of living, and possibly a full ride) with about the same opportunity to get a Big Law Job via less competition? I personally know if I could just scrape into a t-14 I would never do it because the odds of cracking the upper 30% in one of those universities while just barely getting in are probably about the same as being top 10% elsewhere, meanwhile you would have saved yourself in the range of $100,000 after interest.
Also isn't it a well known fact that the further you get out of law school, the less your weight your law school holds?

Just want to see what people have to say about this.

Part of it is the draw of the name of the school. It's outlandishly difficult to even get a screening interview at a top firm if you're not at a big name school. You CAN try mass mailing and things of that sort and it can possibly work but it's not very likely at all. Top firms just don't go to the OCI of mediocre schools. It's not the same.

I also don't know about that 30% figure. This year is supposed to be the worst year and the figures aren't in yet...I'd be willing to bet the figure is better than that for most schools with the possible exception of Georgetown and based on what I've heard (surprisingly) Cornell. I would also be willing to bet that the odds of biglaw out of Iowa and Indiana are at less than 2%.

Not really, the only way that's surprising is if you go by the TLS hype that Cornell receives, on here it's boosted up as if it is a stronger school than GULC, it's not. Cornell places well in NYC biglaw and that's about it (strangely Duke, which does better than Cornell, gets bashed all the time on here).

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Desert Fox

Post subject: Re: Why go to a t-14 without a full ride?

Posted: Tue Dec 22, 2009 12:19 am

TTT in T14 clothing

Joined: Wed Oct 14, 2009 10:47 pm
Archived Posts: 1974

Its a gamble on making good money. Even on full scholarship its going to cost 50K to go to school (books, living, fees) for three years. On top of my 20K undergrad debt, even with that full scholarship I'm still pretty fucked. So if I get into a T14, I'll roll the dice and see if I can't get a big law job.

If I don't have grades to make big law I'll try to do criminal law (because I think I'd find it interesting) and use IBR to save my ass. If I had grades that even made that impossible I'll join the army, and let IBR save my ass. Being an artillery officer sounds like its okay. I'd rather join the army than do doc review.

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Nuclear Soldier

Post subject: Re: Why go to a t-14 without a full ride?

Posted: Tue Dec 22, 2009 12:28 am

Joined: Sat Dec 12, 2009 12:57 am
Archived Posts: 1

Nothing is totally guaranteed. If you get into a T-14 and do well, study hard and get into the right groove/programs, You'll get a good job, and pay off your debt. For you wannabe rich fat cat materialistic losers (in the most petty, low class, modern sense of the word), everything is about MAKING THE BIG BUCKS SO I CAN GET A BIG PLANE AND GET WITH THE WIMMENZ. Your still fat and ugly, your values are destroying everything I see around me. You make me hate the world by lumping me into your stupid statistical view of reality that says 30 percent this, and 30 percent that, when I meet people who don't have it so bad out of much lower schools than T-14. I just don't buy it.

I want a good legal education, and a good job, and if it takes me some time to pay off my debt so be it. On top of that I want to go to a T-14 cuz i can, and I'd rather do that than go to a T-30, if I got the credentials for it

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Stringer Bell

Post subject: Re: Why go to a t-14 without a full ride?

Posted: Tue Dec 22, 2009 12:38 am

Joined: Wed Oct 21, 2009 9:43 pm
Archived Posts: 71

If you're playing head's up poker against one other player, would you rather go all in pre flop with a pair of Queens, or bet half your chip stack with a Queen and a 9 unsuited? That's my personal opinion about this question and I know which bet I'd rather make.

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vanwinkle

Post subject: Re: Why go to a t-14 without a full ride?

Posted: Tue Dec 22, 2009 12:43 am

The Texas Hammer

Joined: Sun Dec 21, 2008 3:02 am
Archived Posts: 3668

Stringer Bell wrote:

This is the perfect analogy, with the single flaw that half the readers on this site probably won't understand it.

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beesknees

Post subject: Re: Why go to a t-14 without a full ride?

Posted: Tue Dec 22, 2009 12:51 am

Joined: Wed Nov 11, 2009 10:46 am
Archived Posts: 55

Stringer Bell wrote:

+1 Wonderful analogy.

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bluejayk

Post subject: Re: Why go to a t-14 without a full ride?

Posted: Tue Dec 22, 2009 12:58 am

Joined: Tue Jun 17, 2008 3:06 pm
Archived Posts: 1077

vanwinkle wrote:

Stringer Bell wrote:

This is the perfect analogy, with the single flaw that half the readers on this site probably won't understand it.

Well, another flaw is that you're not playing head's up, your opponents are everyone else in the world, or at least in the job market. And in a big game, you probably shouldn't be going all-in pre-flop.

Let's

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Reinhardt

Post subject: Re: Why go to a t-14 without a full ride?

Posted: Tue Dec 22, 2009 1:06 am

Joined: Fri May 18, 2007 2:27 am
Archived Posts: 659

bluejayk is credited. If law school were a game of heads up poker I probably wouldn't play. All in pre-flop with pocket queens has a 20% chance of losing against a random hand. There's no folding equity in choosing a law school either.

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vanwinkle

Post subject: Re: Why go to a t-14 without a full ride?

Posted: Tue Dec 22, 2009 1:10 am

The Texas Hammer

Joined: Sun Dec 21, 2008 3:02 am
Archived Posts: 3668

msoftceo wrote:

It's more like every single job application is a hand. Once I graduate, some hands I'll be all-in with QQ and lose to a pair of aces (HYS) or kings (CCN). But it's not like that's my only play. I can go for less prestigious jobs where I'm heads-up for it against the Q9 guy. Even if he's spending less to have a hand in, he's still got the far weaker hand, and I'm still going to crush him.

And there are lots more Q9 guys out there than there are AA and KK guys. I won't necessarily win the exact pot I want, but I'm still going to land one if I get to keep playing with QQ again and again enough. And my all-in buys me that pair of queens for as many times as I want to keep playing them.

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MC Southstar

Post subject: Re: Why go to a t-14 without a full ride?

Posted: Tue Dec 22, 2009 1:11 am

Joined: Sat Sep 26, 2009 3:27 pm
Archived Posts: 1509

vanwinkle wrote:

msoftceo wrote:

Oh shit, yeah I'm more of this opinion. Well put though, sir.

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rayiner

Post subject: Re: Why go to a t-14 without a full ride?

Posted: Tue Dec 22, 2009 1:12 am

Joined: Thu Dec 11, 2008 11:43 am
Archived Posts: 8240

Nuclear Soldier wrote:

Your still fat and ugly, your values are destroying everything I see around me.

Our values built everything you see around you, and invented the internet which you're using to lay this trite bit of "knowledge" on us...

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bighead715

Post subject: Re: Why go to a t-14 without a full ride?

Posted: Tue Dec 22, 2009 2:48 am

Joined: Wed Jun 03, 2009 1:02 am
Archived Posts: 110

the doom and gloom threads r actually kind of getting redundant

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ravens20

Post subject: Re: Why go to a t-14 without a full ride?

Posted: Tue Dec 22, 2009 9:35 am

Joined: Mon Oct 19, 2009 8:17 pm
Archived Posts: 29

vanwinkle wrote:

msoftceo wrote:

Strong argument and eloquently put.

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ogman05

Post subject: Re: Why go to a t-14 without a full ride?

Posted: Tue Dec 22, 2009 10:19 am

Joined: Sun Apr 19, 2009 5:02 pm
Archived Posts: 110

ravens20 wrote:

vanwinkle wrote:

msoftceo wrote:

Strong argument and eloquently put.

Agreed.

Not to mention that it is a bet. I'll take 80% odds any day of the week.

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Reinhardt

Post subject: Re: Why go to a t-14 without a full ride?

Posted: Tue Dec 22, 2009 1:08 pm

Joined: Fri May 18, 2007 2:27 am
Archived Posts: 659

Given the crippling debt law school may saddle students with, it might be more akin to Russian Roulette than poker. Imagine we're sitting at a table with a five chamber revolver. The dean of some top school with poor LRAP places one bullet in and spins. He offers you, say, $3 million dollars to pull the trigger. You can either accept his odds or walk away.

(Add more bullets to adjust for job placement statistics at different schools.)

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The Kim Jong illest

Post subject: Re: Why go to a t-14 without a full ride?

Posted: Tue Dec 22, 2009 2:33 pm

Joined: Sat Nov 21, 2009 1:01 am
Archived Posts: 88

shadowfrost000 wrote:

OMG IM FUcKED

Relax, we'll do a study group.

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The Kim Jong illest

Post subject: Re: Why go to a t-14 without a full ride?

Posted: Tue Dec 22, 2009 2:36 pm

Joined: Sat Nov 21, 2009 1:01 am
Archived Posts: 88

vanwinkle wrote:

Stringer Bell wrote:

This is the perfect analogy, with the single flaw that half the readers on this site probably won't understand it.

There are like 100 flaws with this analogy, but whatever. The point is clear enough.

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