1) Lets say you had 9 months between when you would be graduating from UG and Entering law school, and you wanted to prepare for your 1L courses. Over the course of these months which would you read, E&E books or Hornbooks?

2) During your 1L courses, for the purposes of preparing for final exams and other graded assignments, which would you read and outline; E&E books or the Hornbooks?

Please give reasons as to why you would choose one over the other. If there is some other sort of supplemental material that is better than E&E books or Hornbooks for the above purposes than please tell me about them.

thanks

I'm kind of interested in this as well. *bump*

It certainly wouldn't hurt to read either before law school, but neither is really necessary and if you do read it, don't study, just read it. You won't need to study it until school. I would guess a hornbook probably would be better if you are just reading it to get a broad overview since generally they are more like a traditional book.

I'm quite sure what you're asking here. I wouldn't read and outline either of them. You don't outline the books, you outline the law. So when I'm doing my outline I generally try to use the casebook, class discussion, and hornbook/E&E. The hornbook/E&E will help to give the specifics but the casebook and class discussions will actually tell you what the law. is the prof wants. E&E/hornbooks cover much more and sometimes either are: wrong or different from what the prof or casebook says. Prof>casebook>E&E/hornbook.

I can't really recommend one over the other since it will vary by course. For instance I use a hornbook in K but use E&E in civ pro. E&E's are good if for no other reason than the examples and questions.

bump

Totally and utterly pointless to do this before law school. Most of the material won't even make sense to you outside the context of the class. You really need the professor throwing out hypos and explaining the key concepts in order to be ready for the final.

I know that the Hornbooks, at least for some of the typical 1L courses, are much longer than the E&E books. You say that the Hornbooks give a good overview of the entire course and read more like an actual book. Can you elaborate a little more on the qualitative differences between the two book types. Do E&E books cover all the same stuff that Hornbooks cover, just in a much more condensed manner and thus may read more like an outline or a field manual, as opposed to an actual book?

You also have brought up the issue of accuracy. In what sense can a Hornbook or E&E be wrong? Have you found instances were they are just factually wrong? Have you found content that is outdated and thus irrelevant? What happens when the Hornbook and/or E&E contradict what the casebook or professor say; do you bring the issue up in class or officer hours? What happens when a Hornbook and E&E contradict each other on an issue, how is that resolved?

And more generally speaking, which type of book have you seen more possible problems with the accuracy of the content, Horns or E&E?

It wouldn't help to familiarize yourself with the material earlier, so when you are confronted with it later on it is easier to understand?

If you read all the E&E's cover to cover over the summer, you will be spending many many hours in order to retain a tiny portion of material when you start class. It's much more efficient to read the pertinent E&E and hornbook sections right before each class. You will gain almost nothing by reading ahead.

Hornbooks read more like a treatise (which it is), while the E&E's read more like a textbook that have questions in them. They both cover the same material generally. I can't really suggest a particular one over the other, you will have to find which one you like the best.

I didn't mean to say that either were inaccurate. There has been only one occasion where a prof has particularly stated that something was different than what a hornbook said. I just mean that the prof or casebook might emphasis something more or less than a hornbook or use a slightly different variation on a rule of law. In that case I never bothered to clarify from the prof. I went with what they wanted b/c they grade me. I would never tell a prof that a hornbook gave me a different rule of law as prof generally are not to found of them.

Overall I don't think it would be very common for a hornbook/E&E/casebook/prof to contradict each other. The only difference I've seen is that they might have slightly different variations on the same rule of law.

Reading ahead might be helpful, but probably not greatly. I didn't do it and I don't think it really affected me. I agree though that generally it won't make a whole lot of sense because you won't be in class.

Agreed

Fair enough. But if you absolutely felt an uncontrollable urge to prepare for your 1L year's first classes in someway, what do you believe would be most effective in the place of reading supplemental materials like E&Es? The reason why I ask is that my objective, like most other people, is to get straight "A"s or as close as possible. I find it difficult to believe, as naive as I may be, that I will be able to walk into law school cold and be able to pull it off.

I'd connect as much as possible with family and friends. I'd work at some easy job and have some fun in my down time. If I felt like I needed some basic perspective on the subjects, I'd look on Wikipedia for 10 minutes. Then I'd go outside and play.

Don't think "knowing" the law will mean you will get As. You have to know how to take the exams. About a month into classes, pick up Getting to Maybe and start reading it.

But whatever...

As to your first question, flip a coin.

As to your second, it depends on the professor and the subject.

The E&E books are great.

As a fellow 0L inclined to prep, I'll warn you that the prevailing attitude here is that prepping is a total waste of time. What's funny is that the people who heap their scorn on those of us who want to prep tend to be those who didn't prep in the first place and thus aren't all that qualified, in my humble opinion, to discuss the merits thereof. I'm sure there are those who regret prepping, but in terms of my own friends and acquaintances, those who did are quite happy with the results.

Just as talking too much in class can get one labeled a gunner, prepping outs one as a gunner-to-be, or worse, Someone Who Lacks Something Better To Do With Their Free Time. People who prepped and subsequently destroyed their finals tend to be rather quiet about it. Why let others in on the secret?

Anyway, seeing friends, having an easy job, playing outside AND reading some law books are not mutually exclusive.

That said, I think the E&E books are great, especially if you work out your own answers (i.e. write them out) before reading the explanations. I think hornbooks would be way too much for my purposes right now.

So, for me, it's about how hardcore you are. I'm cracking some of the E&E books, some exam-writing books (Delaney, G2M) and that'll be that. I'm crazy, but not crazy enough to delve into hornbooks.

If you insist on doing 0L prep, I'd suggest skimming the E&Es. Focus on getting a general idea of the concepts you will be studying in more detail, rather than trying to learn every nook and cranny of the doctrine (which will be hard to retain, and most of which your professor will not care about) by reading a hornbook.

During 1L, I would not use either an E&E or a Hornbook for outlining - you should focus on outlining class notes and concepts covered in the assigned reading. You want your outline to be as professor-specific as possible, so unless your professor wrote the E&E or a hornbook, they will be significantly less than ideal for that purpose.

I'm using E&E for preparing for exams mainly, since anything you can get your hands on that has questions and answers is a valuable exam prep tool. I have not gone to the Hornbooks much; I think that they're generally a waste of time unless there's some particular concept that you are having a lot of trouble understanding.

That said...

Frankly, I think the woes of the case method are greatly exaggerated. I find that reading the assigned cases usually gives me a fairly strong understanding of the material before we even discuss it in class and without having to refer to supplementary materials. Obviously, a lot of people feel differently, and those people may want to follow a different approach than I'd recommend.

I read the Torts E&E cover to cover over the summer and don't feel that i only retained a tiny amount of information. In fact, Torts has been far more enjoyable now that much of what i'm learning is reenforcement. Knowing the concepts before reading the cases, rather than learning the concepts solely from reading the cases has been of great value.

I also read Chirelstein for contracts, but feel that this was of less value.

Torts is the easiest 1L class by far. I doubt it was the reading ahead which helped with the concepts.

I would read stuff like Planet Law School and Getting to Maybe... maybe read each 3 times before I crack open a real book about law (and not just law school). You'll thank yourself for it in November when everyone else is going crazy, and you're fully organized and ahead of the game.

Generally, the crappier law school you go to, the more your lesson plan'll track E&Es and hornbooks, and the more help these books will be to you. Also, the more important your grades will be to you (job v no job is a lot more pressure than clerkship v big law). So, depending on which law school you're headed to, I'd prepare differently. So, if I'm going to yale, I probably wouldn't bother doing anything even if I had 9 months, but if I were going to TTT, I'd study my ass off.

I own all the E&Es, and due to my profs., they're totally worthless for 2 of my 3 classes. E&Es only cover the very very very basics of black letter and has 1-2 policies for each rule. And it won't help you to know the basics of negligence before everyone else learns it, since you'll be learning it again, through the lens of your prof. anyway, learning the policies and issues he finds important... thinking about the law his way (and not the hornbook's way).

I found the civ pro E&E to be very useful, but I think this is particular to the subject matter and prof. since it's just rules, everyone needs to learn them... even if you end up with a huge policy based exam like I have... you still need to know the rules cold for this class (Contrast this with torts, where my prof. will actually tell you the rule before asking a policy question... making black letter completely useless). One thing you do NOT want to do is study for 9 months and not be any better off.

Don't touch the hornbooks. They're even more useless right now. You can't really learn out of them, and your prof. will tell you something that runs the exact other way than half the stuff in those books anyway. (Can children recover for loss of consortium of parent? hornbooks say yes, my prof. says no. Guess what answer'll be right for the test?) Pointless. Wait till you get the syllabus, the prof'll recommend to you which hornbooks he wants you to have... meaning the ones he likes, and the ones that'll sneak up on the test.

Btw, I was in the same situation as you last cycle, and this is what I recommend doing based on my experiance so far in a T14.
1. Buy Planet Law School. Read it. Keep in mind, this book exaggerates a lot.
2. Buy Getting to Maybe. Read it. Keep in mind, this book does not exaggerate at all.
3. Start reading Glannon's Civ Pro E&E. Take a look at the actual rules while you're at it. They're all online and it's always the first link in google when you search "Rule 12", etc.
4. Stop halfway through. Re-skim Planet Law School.
5. Finish Glannon. Pick a few random questions and test yourself.
6. Make an outline of Glannon on your computer. Make it include all points mentioned.
7. Re-read Getting to Maybe.
8. Find a Civ Pro hypo online w/ answers and do it, using your outline as a guide. Time yourself, etc. Congradulations, you just finished 1 course of law school. This has cut your workload for first semester by 25%-33%.
9. Right before law school starts, re-skim Plant Law School.
10. Right before finals, re-skim Getting to Maybe.

Note: I didn't do any of that besides read Planet Law School, but now that I've gone through a lot of hornbooks, E&Es, LEEWS, etc... and that is what I would have done. I actually just went traveling for most of that time and had a great time and I recommend you do the same, at least for a large portion of the 9 months. You really only need 1-2 months of 2-3 hours a day to do Steps 1-7.

Small books everyone heading to law school should read:

1) Elements of Legal Style (Garner)
2) Learning Legal Reasoning (Levi)
3) Academic Legal Writing (Volokh) (you can ignore the half about writing for academic publication)

These are short and rewarding enough to read over again later when you get the chance. Learning Legal Reasoning by Delaney (not the same as Levi's book of the same name) is another one that is quite simple and short, but not at all required. You'll learn everything you could get from it in the first week of Legal Research & Writing anyway, but it does give a simple and short intro to how to read and brief cases, which might be useful for anyone who has never read a legal opinion before.

Medium length books that are not miraculous, but worth it if you have the time and interest:

1) Civ. Pro. E&E (Glannon)
2) Contracts (Chirelstein)
3) Torts E&E (Glannon) (some people gripe that it's all about negligence and doesn't cover intentional torts at all, but that just reflects the reality of modern torts practice)
4) Understanding Criminal Law (Dressler)

Learning Criminal Law as Advocacy Argument (Delaney) is nice as an intro to Criminal Law, but maybe more useful as a practical workbook that demonstrates the sort of problems, reasoning, and writing you will face on law school exams. Dressler's book is a more thorough short treatise on the subject, but Delaney's is easier reading and is built around practical exercises. Criminal Law is a medium intensity subject, because the concepts can be subtle, but there aren't a whole horrifying lot of them. So as a subject for demonstrating legal reasoning, it's one of the better ones to start with for someone who is not yet a law student.

Longer books that are good, but a bit more work to get through:

1) Understanding Property Law (Sprankling) (slow going, but that's a function of the subject rather than the book)
2) Constitutional Law (Chemerinsky) (not as big as it seems, because Intro. Con. Law will only cover about half the total topics in it -- but you'll have to check the syllabus for Con. Law at your school to figure out which half)

Things that are not at all worth the effort (at least as summer reading):

1) Property E&E (incoherent & unreadable)
2) Hornbook Treatises (Farnsworth on Contracts, etc. -- these are great books, but you can't pick the right ones to read until you find out what professors and casebooks you will have)
3) Books About Law School (other than The Bramble Bush and Getting to Maybe, which are at least a little bit useful, the rest are just pulp)

I agree that the property E&E isn't as well written as the others, but it's chief merit, as with the other E&E's, is in the problems and answers section. I'm finding it pretty useful, especially when it comes to Future Interests and the RAP.

I also found the Contracts E&E to be very helpful.

Maybe it's just me. I tried to read it twice and just couldn't get anywhere with it. I wound up with the Gilberts property outline instead (the obvious choice since our casebook author wrote it). For future interests I used A Possessory Estates and Future Interests Primer, by Wendel, which has far and away the highest page/benefit ratio of anything I've read so far.


True. Actually I read the Contracts E&E the summer before myself, and never got around to reading more than about 1/4 of Chirelstein. But I suggested the latter because the Boat Book is a lot shorter than the E&E. For someone talking about giving up summer time to read books about the law, I figured Chirelstein would show them the same sights with less walking.

Always look for treatises and commercial outlines written by 1) your professor or 2) your casebook author. Remember that casebooks have multiple authors, so check all of them. The more popular authors like Krier, Yeazell, Epstein, and Dressler have all written commercial supplements that will give you simple and clear explanations of all the stuff they obfuscate in their casebooks. Keep in mind that you can also check out the major treatises in your library before buying them (if you even want to buy them at all). If you can't find matched authors, then you could start with the following as generic casebook companions, and see how it goes:

Civ. Pro. (Glannon) (the E&E might be all you ever need for this)
Contracts (Farnsworth)
Understanding Property Law (Sprankling) (unless you have Krier's book, then his Gilberts is likely all you need)
Law of Torts (Dobbs) (unless you have Epstein's book, then maybe his Introduction to Torts)
Understanding Criminal Law (Dressler) (he also wrote the Black Letter Outline on Criminal Law)
Constitutional Law (Chemerinsky) (unless your casebook author or professor wrote a treatise on this)

Just keep in mind that the endgame is the exam. It doesn't matter that much what you read, because nothing is going to magically make you understand how to analyze and apply the law. Better written or better matched treatises and supplements will just make it less work to get through the volume of reading and grasp the concepts. If you read some of the shorter commercial supplements in each subject before you start, then you will have a vague overview of all your subjects, and can move on to deeper things once classes begin. This helps in the narrow sense that you won't be flailing around trying to grasp basic things like the difference between the Restatement of Contracts and the UCC for the first couple of weeks. Do not plan on actually reading more than one supplement along with your assigned casebook during the semester.

Having read things like the E&Es through before the semester starts, you can turn right away to what really matters in them, which is working the problems. The real meat of learning is going to come from working problems as you go along, so what you really want are lots of multiple choice and short answer review books. The E&Es are good for this. The Finz Multistate Method has a shitload of MBE style questions in every subject except Civ. Pro. and is a great deal. The LexisNexis Q&A on Civ. Pro. is good. Glannon Guides are also nice in subjects they cover. When you hit Estates & Future Interests, get the Possessory Estates and Future Interests Primer by Wendel. You will also find cast off Bar/Bri review books laying around school at the beginning of the semester, and the generic MBE review volumes of those are a great (and free) source of multiple choice review problems. The key is just to have lots of good problems to work, and to work them as you go.

The really crucial thing is that you need to find or form a good study group early on, because this is what will keep you on track and help you learn to apply the concepts. With this in mind, remember that not everyone has an unlimited budget. You'll have to get together with your study group and figure out a short list of Q&A style supplements that you all either have or can afford to buy to draw your problems from. Watch people during the stupid little "mock class" that they inevitably have during orientation, and sit somewhere around the ones you want to study with on the first day. Ideally you want to hook up with the smartest non-assholes that you can find. Five is the ideal size for a study group -- any bigger and you'll never be able to get together, and smaller will not give you enough difference of opinion.

Make your first meeting the second or third week of class. Meet each week and work through a set of problems in each subject, covering whatever it is that you did in class the week before. That way people have time to collect and review their notes, and to start to understand things a little before you try to study together. Early on you might only do one day a week, because everyone is going to feel buried. Later and towards exams, you can do one day each week per subject, because you'll be more productive and your Legal Research & Writing workload will taper off.

If you have lots of practice exams from your professor with model answers, then you should switch to working on nothing but those the last four weeks or so. You don't even have to work them all out -- just get together and outline the answers to each essay question, then see how many points you hit from the model answer. The key is to do a good number of them -- four or five per class -- so you can develop the skills of breaking questions down and putting all the concepts together. Even if you've been working short problems consistently, you will still have a lot to learn about tackling actual exams in the last 1/2 to 1/3 of the semester. Take as long as you want on the first ones, and work the last couple under a time limit to check your time management skills as well.

If you have no past exams because you have a visiting professor, or one who thinks students should "focus on understanding the material instead of scoring high on the exam," then pull together mock exams for each session made up of three to five questions from books like Siegel's.

To be totally honest, I tried several approaches to outlining and in the end concluded that it was a massive waste of time. If your professor wrote your casebook or treatise, then an outline following their TOC might make some sense. Otherwise, you'll find it easy enough to get outlines for your class with your professor from upper class students. Either start with those, or get a decent commercial outline and use the capsule summary up front as a starting point.

For one class I used a handed down outline and just studied that, supplementing it with new cases that it did not cover. For another I ripped the capsule summary out of the front of Gilberts and wrote in short notes for all the cases we read wherever they fit. For Civ. Pro. I wound up just getting a PDF file of the FRCP that you can find online, deleting all the pages with rules we did not cover, and printing that out to use as a long outline (again, writing case cites and one sentence briefs in the margins wherever they fit).

You will also have to put together a short ten to fifteen page attack outline of checklists, flowcharts, and elements that you will actually use on exam day. You can probably steal a lot of that from others as well -- search the Internet for "flow chart" and "civil procedure," for instance, or just get those Crunchtime books and copy the more useful things out of the first section. Cobbling stuff together and then adding in notes or cites where needed will give you what you need with a whole lot less work than slaving over it for countless hours yourself. Use the time you save to do what matters -- read your treatise through a second time, and work more problems.

Or knock yourself out hand crafting the ultimate two-hundred page outline if you want. Somebody has to do it, after all, if only so that lazy bums like me can feast on the fruits of your labor next year.

Wow thank you for all this good advice. As far as some of the skills books are concerned I was going to ask about them next. I know that "Getting to Maybe" is a very popular selection, but I was also concerned about some books about legal reasoning/analysis and research & writing. Thanks

I concur that Getting to Maybe is a good one. Read it beforehand, but keep in mind you'll have to reread a lot of it during your first semester for it to make sense.

I'd also recommend two other books. One is called 'Acing Your First Year of Law School' by a couple with the last name of Noyes. It's short and sweet, but will let you know how law school works, etc. It also has some good tips on study methods, etc.

The second book is Law 101. It's more of a story/overview of how the legal system works and has developed. Interesting stuff and not real deep either, so you won't encounter tons of stuff that won't make any sense. You can find it here: http://www.amazon.com/Law-101-Everythin ... 498&sr=8-1

Does everyone study before getting in to law school? I feel like if I don't I will be so behind.

No, very few will. You will at worst only be "behind" a handful of people, and they're only "ahead" in nominal ways (not in substantial knowledge, to be sure).