Top-Law-Schools.comTLS
Home
Law School
Admissions
Law
Schools
Law
Students
TLS
Forums
 
Forum Archives Index     Forum Archives Search     Leave Archives and Visit Active TLS Forums


All times are UTC - 5 hours [ DST ]




Forum locked This topic is locked, you cannot edit posts or make further replies.  [ 35 posts ]  Go to page 1, 2  Next
Author Message
 Post subject: How does your school rank your class?
PostPosted: Thu Jun 25, 2009 3:18 pm 

Joined: Fri Sep 08, 2006 12:09 am
Archived Posts: 94
UConn ranks everyone into 5 quintiles (top 20%, 40%, 60%, 80%, 100%). They then numerically rank the top 20% people by gpa. With this method, someone who is top 21% can only list that they're top 40% on their resume. I'm not sure their reasoning for not numerically ranking anyone below the top 20%. Just curious what other schools do...


Top
  
 
 Post subject: Re: How does your school rank your class?
PostPosted: Thu Jun 25, 2009 3:22 pm 

Joined: Thu Dec 11, 2008 11:43 am
Archived Posts: 5009
snewcrash wrote:
UConn ranks everyone into 5 quintiles (top 20%, 40%, 60%, 80%, 100%). They then numerically rank the top 20% people by gpa. With this method, someone who is top 21% can only list that they're top 40% on their resume. I'm not sure their reasoning for not numerically ranking anyone below the top 20%. Just curious what other schools do...


Law school or UG?

My school ranked everyone, overall and within their major, down to the guy who was DFL.


Top
  
 
 Post subject: Re: How does your school rank your class?
PostPosted: Thu Jun 25, 2009 3:25 pm 

Joined: Fri Sep 08, 2006 12:09 am
Archived Posts: 94
rayiner wrote:
snewcrash wrote:
UConn ranks everyone into 5 quintiles (top 20%, 40%, 60%, 80%, 100%). They then numerically rank the top 20% people by gpa. With this method, someone who is top 21% can only list that they're top 40% on their resume. I'm not sure their reasoning for not numerically ranking anyone below the top 20%. Just curious what other schools do...


Law school or UG?

My school ranked everyone, overall and within their major, down to the guy who was DFL.


Sorry, law school.


Top
  
 
 Post subject: Re: How does your school rank your class?
PostPosted: Thu Jun 25, 2009 6:48 pm 

Joined: Sun Sep 30, 2007 3:38 am
Archived Posts: 72
My school just gives the GPA cutoffs for 25%, 50% and 75%. No one gets ranked.


Top
  
 
 Post subject: Re: How does your school rank your class?
PostPosted: Thu Jun 25, 2009 7:27 pm 

Joined: Tue Jun 23, 2009 6:07 pm
Archived Posts: 59
Mine gives everyone an exact number. Nice if you're at the top....not so nice if you're at the bottom.


Top
  
 
 Post subject: Re: How does your school rank your class?
PostPosted: Thu Jun 25, 2009 7:40 pm 

Joined: Tue Nov 18, 2008 6:27 pm
Archived Posts: 594
snewcrash wrote:
UConn ranks everyone into 5 quintiles (top 20%, 40%, 60%, 80%, 100%). They then numerically rank the top 20% people by gpa. With this method, someone who is top 21% can only list that they're top 40% on their resume. I'm not sure their reasoning for not numerically ranking anyone below the top 20%. Just curious what other schools do...


That sucks for the people in the 20-25% range. I think at the school I will be attending it is top 10%, 20%, and 33%, and only the top 5 individuals are ranked.


Top
  
 
 Post subject: Re: How does your school rank your class?
PostPosted: Thu Jun 25, 2009 7:43 pm 

Joined: Sat May 02, 2009 5:04 am
Archived Posts: 202
It works to your advantage if you don't know your rank past about 30%. Because when employers ask, you can honestly say "I don't know."


Top
  
 
 Post subject: Re: How does your school rank your class?
PostPosted: Thu Jun 25, 2009 7:46 pm 

Joined: Thu Aug 16, 2007 3:12 am
Archived Posts: 1384
I think schools that do not rank past top 30% or 50% might actually help these people to find decent jobs (as long as the school is not a TTT)


Top
  
 
 Post subject: Re: How does your school rank your class?
PostPosted: Thu Jun 25, 2009 7:51 pm 

Joined: Sun Jan 13, 2008 1:19 am
Archived Posts: 119
My school ranks the top 10% by individual number, then you only know if you're top 15%, 20%, 25%, 30%, and 33%. No one else is ranked.


Top
  
 
 Post subject: Re: How does your school rank your class?
PostPosted: Thu Jun 25, 2009 7:56 pm 

Joined: Mon May 25, 2009 11:23 pm
Archived Posts: 4
Does anyone know how Maryland's ranking system works?


Top
  
 
 Post subject: Re: How does your school rank your class?
PostPosted: Thu Jun 25, 2009 8:12 pm 

Joined: Sun Feb 11, 2007 1:19 pm
Archived Posts: 1657
My school doesn't rank at all. There are two levels of honors, and they give 'approximate' cutoffs for those (3% and 30%), but even those vary per year, so nobody knows his or her rank.


Top
  
 
 Post subject: Re: How does your school rank your class?
PostPosted: Thu Jun 25, 2009 8:31 pm 

Joined: Thu Aug 16, 2007 3:12 am
Archived Posts: 1384
I think some sort of ranking is good: for schools that are not in the top tier, no class rank at all may not be a good thing.

e.g. northeastern: no class rank at all.


Last edited by cantaboot on Thu Jun 25, 2009 8:42 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Top
  
 
 Post subject: Re: How does your school rank your class?
PostPosted: Thu Jun 25, 2009 8:40 pm 

Joined: Mon Mar 26, 2007 12:55 pm
Archived Posts: 917
Vandy doesn't rank, and I know we're not alone in this. The cutoff gpa for top 20% each semester are published, which means it's at least possible (though unlikely) that 40% of the class will have Dean's List on their resume by the time OCI rolls around. I would bet it's closer to 30%, but only because I know a lot of people who fluctuated with either good-great or great-good grades 1L year. Other than that, no cutoffs and no ranks until they announce Order of the Coif after graduation. And by then we will hopefully all have jobs or clerkships, so such distinctions won't matter as much except for those who actually care about prestttige.


Top
  
 
 Post subject: Re: How does your school rank your class?
PostPosted: Fri Jun 26, 2009 2:33 pm 

Joined: Tue Aug 14, 2007 2:51 pm
Archived Posts: 1842
ND is median GPA only, and dean's list or any cutoffs are nearly impossible to achieve from what I've heard (for first year, it would be FAR harder to get than making law review)

Soo...none of us have any idea where we are beyond knowing if we are above or below median.


Top
  
 
 Post subject: Re: How does your school rank your class?
PostPosted: Fri Jun 26, 2009 2:34 pm 

Joined: Thu Dec 04, 2008 9:27 pm
Archived Posts: 877
I don't know, and I'm honestly not even sure how to find out, other than calling the Dean.


Top
  
 
 Post subject: Re: How does your school rank your class?
PostPosted: Fri Jun 26, 2009 2:37 pm 

Joined: Fri Dec 14, 2007 10:46 am
Archived Posts: 836
Location: In a fishbowl
No rankings (except 1,2,and 3 in the class)

GPA cutoffs at 10, 20, 1/3, and 50%


Top
  
 
 Post subject: Re: How does your school rank your class?
PostPosted: Fri Jun 26, 2009 2:38 pm 

Joined: Sun Sep 14, 2008 2:35 am
Archived Posts: 15
Cornell has a median GPA, publishes GPA cutoffs for top 5% and 10%, and puts a notation on your transcript if you're in the top 30%.


Top
  
 
 Post subject: Re: How does your school rank your class?
PostPosted: Fri Jun 26, 2009 2:50 pm 

Joined: Sun Apr 06, 2008 3:13 am
Archived Posts: 1022
cantaboot wrote:
No class rank at all may not be a good thing.

I've never figured why people think this is such a great idea for any school. Every school that assigns grades ranks its students, and students are the only ones left in the dark by a refusal to publish grade-rank correlations. Employers have no problem figuring out exactly where you stand, especially when they come back to a school every year. Unless you think "ignorance is bliss," this isn't doing you any favors.


Top
  
 
 Post subject: Re: How does your school rank your class?
PostPosted: Fri Jun 26, 2009 11:29 pm 

Joined: Fri Nov 07, 2008 11:15 am
Archived Posts: 283
snotrocket wrote:
cantaboot wrote:
No class rank at all may not be a good thing.

I've never figured why people think this is such a great idea for any school. Every school that assigns grades ranks its students, and students are the only ones left in the dark by a refusal to publish grade-rank correlations. Employers have no problem figuring out exactly where you stand, especially when they come back to a school every year. Unless you think "ignorance is bliss," this isn't doing you any favors.


You do realize he said: "no class rank at all may NOT be a good thing," right?


Top
  
 
 Post subject: Re: How does your school rank your class?
PostPosted: Fri Jun 26, 2009 11:42 pm 

Joined: Sun Apr 06, 2008 3:13 am
Archived Posts: 1022
amped wrote:
snotrocket wrote:
cantaboot wrote:
No class rank at all may not be a good thing.

I've never figured why people think this is such a great idea for any school. Every school that assigns grades ranks its students, and students are the only ones left in the dark by a refusal to publish grade-rank correlations. Employers have no problem figuring out exactly where you stand, especially when they come back to a school every year. Unless you think "ignorance is bliss," this isn't doing you any favors.

You do realize he said: "no class rank at all may NOT be a good thing," right?

You do realize I was concurring with him, right?


Top
  
 
 Post subject: Re: How does your school rank your class?
PostPosted: Fri Jun 26, 2009 11:49 pm 

Joined: Fri Nov 07, 2008 11:15 am
Archived Posts: 283
snotrocket wrote:
amped wrote:
snotrocket wrote:
cantaboot wrote:
No class rank at all may not be a good thing.

I've never figured why people think this is such a great idea for any school. Every school that assigns grades ranks its students, and students are the only ones left in the dark by a refusal to publish grade-rank correlations. Employers have no problem figuring out exactly where you stand, especially when they come back to a school every year. Unless you think "ignorance is bliss," this isn't doing you any favors.

You do realize he said: "no class rank at all may NOT be a good thing," right?

You do realize I was concurring with him, right?


To be honest no. Now that I think about it...I'm not really sure which side your post supports. =)


Top
  
 
 Post subject: Re: How does your school rank your class?
PostPosted: Sat Jun 27, 2009 12:29 am 

Joined: Thu Aug 16, 2007 3:12 am
Archived Posts: 1384
what I mean is that it's good to have some sort of cut-off, if not class rank, like 10%, 25% .... up to median. It'd be a good idea not to rank/ set cut-off for those below the median. Although one would argue that employers could infer or find out anyway, but I doubt many of them would do so -- they would, of course, have a rough idea that a candidate is below median, or medianish. ..... By not ranking the below median ones, or below 1/3, the schools could be doing the less fortunate people a big favor.


Top
  
 
 Post subject: Re: How does your school rank your class?
PostPosted: Sat Jun 27, 2009 1:55 am 

Joined: Sun Feb 11, 2007 1:19 pm
Archived Posts: 1657
Quote:
I've never figured why people think this is such a great idea for any school. Every school that assigns grades ranks its students, and students are the only ones left in the dark by a refusal to publish grade-rank correlations. Employers have no problem figuring out exactly where you stand, especially when they come back to a school every year. Unless you think "ignorance is bliss," this isn't doing you any favors.


I don't think that's entirely true. The people who are most helped by ranks are those who are at the top, and at most schools those are not the students who need the help of the school to get a job. An employer will see "#1" and will know that this is the THE best student in the class, whereas the same employer seeing "A A- A A+ A A A- A" for the first year will be very impressed, but will probably have no way of knowing if this student is in the top percentile or in the top 3% or what.

Employers can tell the difference between a top 1% and a spot-on-median student either by grades and by rank, so in that sense it makes no difference whether you do or you don't have a rank. But the difference between top 10% and top 15% is hard to gauge by grades alone.

So if we limit this discussion to firm hiring (for simplicity's sake), a hypothetical school that places, say, 30% of its class at 'good' firms (by whatever definition) in an average year, might be well served by a no-ranking policy. When rankings are used, firms can see exactly who is and who isn't in the 30%. Without ranks, they may go a bit deeper into the class and get the top 33, 34% people also. On the other hand, a hypothetical school whose reputation isn't good and who in an average year places maybe a handful of people into these 'good' firms might be well served by ranking their students. If a firm is willing only to take the very best people from this school and isn't going to take any risks beyond there, it would help to let them know who these very best people are.


Top
  
 
 Post subject: Re: How does your school rank your class?
PostPosted: Sat Jun 27, 2009 8:46 am 

Joined: Fri Nov 07, 2008 11:15 am
Archived Posts: 283
NewHere wrote:
Quote:
I've never figured why people think this is such a great idea for any school. Every school that assigns grades ranks its students, and students are the only ones left in the dark by a refusal to publish grade-rank correlations. Employers have no problem figuring out exactly where you stand, especially when they come back to a school every year. Unless you think "ignorance is bliss," this isn't doing you any favors.


I don't think that's entirely true. The people who are most helped by ranks are those who are at the top, and at most schools those are not the students who need the help of the school to get a job. An employer will see "#1" and will know that this is the THE best student in the class, whereas the same employer seeing "A A- A A+ A A A- A" for the first year will be very impressed, but will probably have no way of knowing if this student is in the top percentile or in the top 3% or what.

Employers can tell the difference between a top 1% and a spot-on-median student either by grades and by rank, so in that sense it makes no difference whether you do or you don't have a rank. But the difference between top 10% and top 15% is hard to gauge by grades alone.

So if we limit this discussion to firm hiring (for simplicity's sake), a hypothetical school that places, say, 30% of its class at 'good' firms (by whatever definition) in an average year, might be well served by a no-ranking policy. When rankings are used, firms can see exactly who is and who isn't in the 30%. Without ranks, they may go a bit deeper into the class and get the top 33, 34% people also. On the other hand, a hypothetical school whose reputation isn't good and who in an average year places maybe a handful of people into these 'good' firms might be well served by ranking their students. If a firm is willing only to take the very best people from this school and isn't going to take any risks beyond there, it would help to let them know who these very best people are.


RE: the bolded part. Not all students at the top will have these kinds of grades. Some schools have fairly draconian curves and it may not be obvious who is really the best.

I think an ideal system would be to give cutoffs every 5% down through 40%, give the median cutoff, then nothing after that.


Last edited by amped on Sat Jun 27, 2009 9:54 am, edited 1 time in total.

Top
  
 
 Post subject: Re: How does your school rank your class?
PostPosted: Sat Jun 27, 2009 9:11 am 

Joined: Sun Oct 21, 2007 12:57 am
Archived Posts: 909
Top 25/50% is posted. You can look back at previous years' Order of the Coif (top 10%) which may be somewhat helpful for figuring out the current top 10%.


Top
  
 
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Forum locked This topic is locked, you cannot edit posts or make further replies.  [ 35 posts ]  Go to page 1, 2  Next

All times are UTC - 5 hours [ DST ]





copyright 2003-2010 top-law-schools.com • all rights reserved • powered by phpBBContact TLS