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 Post subject: difference b/w a 169 and 170?
PostPosted: Sat Jul 05, 2008 4:02 pm 

Joined: Thu Jul 03, 2008 6:33 pm
Archived Posts: 197
i know the 170 looks better, but admissions wise (i already broweded LSN, etc. but wanted some other feedback), how much difference is there between 169 and 170?


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 Post subject: Re: difference b/w a 169 and 170?
PostPosted: Sat Jul 05, 2008 4:10 pm 

Joined: Fri Jun 06, 2008 2:34 am
Archived Posts: 829
uhmm....1?


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 Post subject: Re: difference b/w a 169 and 170?
PostPosted: Sat Jul 05, 2008 4:11 pm 

Joined: Tue Oct 23, 2007 12:04 am
Archived Posts: 275
Depends what your gpa is really.....if your sub 3.3 its a large difference = (


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 Post subject: Re: difference b/w a 169 and 170?
PostPosted: Sat Jul 05, 2008 4:14 pm 

Joined: Thu Jul 03, 2008 6:33 pm
Archived Posts: 197
markakis. thanks for your feedback...
what i'm saying is, there's such an obvious aura of excellence that sorrounds the 170's, and i got a 169 (my GPA's a 4.0) and really wanted to apply to the top 6 with a decent chance of admittance. so i was wondering, essentially, if a retake into the low 170's (171, 172) will really make a difference or not.


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 Post subject: Re: difference b/w a 169 and 170?
PostPosted: Sat Jul 05, 2008 4:15 pm 

Joined: Tue Nov 06, 2007 6:32 pm
Archived Posts: 4393
If you're interested in T14-level schools, I think every point between 168 and 173 is absolutely vital.

At 3.5/170, I'd love a 171, but wouldn't think my chances were shot with a 169. I actually think the point from 169-170 is slightly less crucial than the point from 170-171. But I am quite biased on this, of course.


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 Post subject: Re: difference b/w a 169 and 170?
PostPosted: Sat Jul 05, 2008 4:16 pm 

Joined: Thu Jul 03, 2008 6:33 pm
Archived Posts: 197
yeah, i think we've discussed this before. it's tearing me up!! i can't decide whether to risk the retake or not. have you decided yet?


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 Post subject: Re: difference b/w a 169 and 170?
PostPosted: Sat Jul 05, 2008 4:19 pm 

Joined: Tue Nov 06, 2007 6:32 pm
Archived Posts: 4393
arnie162 wrote:
yeah, i think we've discussed this before. it's tearing me up!! i can't decide whether to risk the retake or not. have you decided yet?


Not yet. My PT range was mostly 173-175 so that I got a 170 wasn't catastrophic. It's just knowing that I missed 5 of the 10 questions when there was a major, uncontrolled distraction at my test center - that's what makes me think a re-take might be wise. And an extra few points could help my chances at a lot of schools that interest me.


Last edited by RVP11 on Sat Jul 05, 2008 4:20 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: difference b/w a 169 and 170?
PostPosted: Sat Jul 05, 2008 4:20 pm 

Joined: Mon Jun 23, 2008 9:57 pm
Archived Posts: 518
I feel you. I'm in 166 hell. I think I could retest at 167-169, and with my subpar GPA, seems like its worth it at a point. But I just don't know if a 167 is going to sway anyone one way or another when compared to that one point.

There was a thread earlier about buying one point on the LSAT.....now I wish I could do it! grrrrr >.>


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 Post subject: Re: difference b/w a 169 and 170?
PostPosted: Sat Jul 05, 2008 4:22 pm 

Joined: Tue Nov 06, 2007 6:32 pm
Archived Posts: 4393
BigAristotle wrote:
I feel you. I'm in 166 hell. I think I could retest at 167-169, and with my subpar GPA, seems like its worth it at a point. But I just don't know if a 167 is going to sway anyone one way or another when compared to that one point.

There was a thread earlier about buying one point on the LSAT.....now I wish I could do it! grrrrr >.>


There were 4.0/166s this year who got locked out of the T14 when 4.0/167s were almost all going T14. That 166 to 167 can be huge.


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 Post subject: Re: difference b/w a 169 and 170?
PostPosted: Sat Jul 05, 2008 4:23 pm 

Joined: Thu Jul 03, 2008 6:33 pm
Archived Posts: 197
you know, i was thinking: shouldn't you ideally want to score outside of that LSAT band when you retake? because say (with my current 169), my LSAT-band is 166-172. but if i score a 171, side-by-side with my 169, i just don't feel like it makes that much of a difference. thoughts?


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 Post subject: Re: difference b/w a 169 and 170?
PostPosted: Sat Jul 05, 2008 4:26 pm 

Joined: Mon Jun 23, 2008 9:57 pm
Archived Posts: 518
Thats exactly what I feel Arnie. I don't think I'll improve enough for my band.

Jsporter's probably right, logic dictates I should retest it, I'm just wary because I'll be taking my usual insane course load of 17 hours this fall, plus combined with football season, studying may be at a premium. >.> argh.


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 Post subject: Re: difference b/w a 169 and 170?
PostPosted: Sat Jul 05, 2008 4:29 pm 

Joined: Thu Jul 03, 2008 6:33 pm
Archived Posts: 197
i hear you. i'm taking 15 hours, which isn't 17, but still a lot when you're thinking about retaking the LSAT. if only i could travel back in time...


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 Post subject: Re: difference b/w a 169 and 170?
PostPosted: Sat Jul 05, 2008 4:31 pm 

Joined: Fri Jun 06, 2008 2:34 am
Archived Posts: 829
On a more serious note, there isn't a lot of difference except that 170 puts you at about 98.4 percentile while 169 puts you at 97.8. So in essence, 170 means you did better than more people on the test than the test taker with a 169. Plus, 17X look better than 16X; it's just like the t14 as compared to the non-t14 law schools - the t14 always look better. So it's also a matter of perception; basic difference is in technicality.


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 Post subject: Re: difference b/w a 169 and 170?
PostPosted: Sat Jul 05, 2008 4:33 pm 

Joined: Fri Jan 25, 2008 12:12 am
Archived Posts: 1403
Location: Houston/Baton Rouge/Austin/&c.
166 to 167 is huge, or at least it was this past cycle. The cut off might be different this year with increased competition b/c of a predicted increase in applicants b/c of the economy. 166 will still get you in some good schools & likely at least 1 T14 if your GPA/soft factors are good, but if you're a T14 or bust person, I'd consider the retake. I don't think there is a similarly noticeable cut off b/w 169 & 170.


Last edited by RATRATRAT on Sat Jul 05, 2008 4:35 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: difference b/w a 169 and 170?
PostPosted: Sat Jul 05, 2008 4:34 pm 

Joined: Sat Jul 05, 2008 4:17 am
Archived Posts: 8
I know how you feel BigA. When I saw that 166 / 93 I looked over the test to find out how many different ways I might have screwed myself out of that 1 extra point. Hitting that 95th percentile is huge.


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 Post subject: Re: difference b/w a 169 and 170?
PostPosted: Sat Jul 05, 2008 4:34 pm 

Joined: Fri Jun 06, 2008 2:34 am
Archived Posts: 829
arnie162 wrote:
markakis. thanks for your feedback...
what i'm saying is, there's such an obvious aura of excellence that sorrounds the 170's, and i got a 169 (my GPA's a 4.0) and really wanted to apply to the top 6 with a decent chance of admittance. so i was wondering, essentially, if a retake into the low 170's (171, 172) will really make a difference or not.


imho, do not retake. With your stellar GPA, the difference between 169 and 170 become infinitesimal. If on the other hand you had like a 3.4/3.5 an LSAT of 171 will look a whole lot better than 169. So go for it, man. All the best!


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 Post subject: Re: difference b/w a 169 and 170?
PostPosted: Sat Jul 05, 2008 4:38 pm 

Joined: Thu Jul 03, 2008 6:33 pm
Archived Posts: 197
thanks a lot!


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 Post subject: Re: difference b/w a 169 and 170?
PostPosted: Sat Jul 05, 2008 4:52 pm 

Joined: Fri Jan 25, 2008 12:12 am
Archived Posts: 1403
Location: Houston/Baton Rouge/Austin/&c.
If you're fine with possibly not getting T6, then don't retake. If it's t6 or bust, you might want a retake.


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 Post subject: Re: difference b/w a 169 and 170?
PostPosted: Sat Jul 05, 2008 5:25 pm 

Joined: Sat Apr 26, 2008 12:18 am
Archived Posts: 1217
markakis wrote:
On a more serious note, there isn't a lot of difference except that 170 puts you at about 98.4 percentile while 169 puts you at 97.8. [...] So it's also a matter of perception; basic difference is in technicality.



Ummm.... not really. 169 puts you in the top 2.2%, while a 170 puts you in the top 1.6%. That might not seem like a lot, but it means that the person who scores 170 has done better than almost 30% of the people who score 169 or greater (and a person who scores 172 has done better than about half of the people who score 170 or better). Those are pretty big differences, so it's understandable why one or two point differences are important.


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 Post subject: Re: difference b/w a 169 and 170?
PostPosted: Sat Jul 05, 2008 5:31 pm 

Joined: Tue Jul 10, 2007 11:51 am
Archived Posts: 3033
Quote:
imho, do not retake. With your stellar GPA, the difference between 169 and 170 become infinitesimal. If on the other hand you had like a 3.4/3.5 an LSAT of 171 will look a whole lot better than 169. So go for it, man. All the best!


I disagree. Every point counts.


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 Post subject: Re: difference b/w a 169 and 170?
PostPosted: Sat Jul 05, 2008 5:41 pm 

Joined: Tue May 20, 2008 6:37 pm
Archived Posts: 1383
I'm in the 169 dilemma too. *sigh*

I think I have a decent/good shot at schools like Michigan, Duke, GULC, Northwestern, but I can't help thinking "what if?"

I mean, I missed 8 RC questions, five in a row because I ran out of time...


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 Post subject: Re: difference b/w a 169 and 170?
PostPosted: Sat Jul 05, 2008 6:32 pm 

Joined: Mon Oct 15, 2007 4:47 am
Archived Posts: 1732
If you are going to retake with a score that high, really analyze where you missed questions and where your weak areas are. If you can't study and get your practice test averages at least a few points higher than what you already have, I wouldn't retake.
Even a small gain can be a huge difference though once you get into the 165+ range. I think even a 1 or 2 point gain is worth it, if you are confident you can make it happen.


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 Post subject: Re: difference b/w a 169 and 170?
PostPosted: Sat Jul 05, 2008 6:35 pm 

Joined: Thu Jul 03, 2008 6:33 pm
Archived Posts: 197
i understand the whole 2.2%/1.6% deal, but i think it's more valuable when you take the test your first time. I mean, I have a 169 now; say i retake and get a 171 (which is, essentially, just 2 more questions right on this scale). i don't think the 171 will be weighted as if it would with a first-time 171. in other words, i'm wondering if it'll be any different than a 169.
IMHO, a 169 test taker would have to get a 172+ to merit the retake (so on the edge or outside of his or her LSAT band). and that's not really a guaranteed score...hence my waffling about this retake...
after much research, though, i'm guessing that a stellar PS should allow a 169 applicant to break into the T6, and even have a shot at HYS (even tho it's a long shot...).

and yeah, i looked at my mistakes and i ideally should've had a 173 on this test. but i didn't, you know? and who knows what could happen next time.


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 Post subject: Re: difference b/w a 169 and 170?
PostPosted: Sat Jul 05, 2008 9:42 pm 

Joined: Sat Apr 26, 2008 12:18 am
Archived Posts: 1217
arnie162 wrote:
i understand the whole 2.2%/1.6% deal, but i think it's more valuable when you take the test your first time. I mean, I have a 169 now; say i retake and get a 171 (which is, essentially, just 2 more questions right on this scale). i don't think the 171 will be weighted as if it would with a first-time 171. in other words, i'm wondering if it'll be any different than a 169.


While I'm sure that adcoms probably realise that the 169/171 applicant is functionally/statistically equivalent (all other things being equal) to the 170 applicant, I don't think they're going to view the 170 more favourably considering they only have to report the highest LSAT score.


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 Post subject: Re: difference b/w a 169 and 170?
PostPosted: Sat Jul 05, 2008 10:10 pm 

Joined: Thu Apr 03, 2008 9:13 am
Archived Posts: 800
I really don't understand this "i need to score outside my band" mentality. Sure, a 169 then a 171 won't look as good as a one time 171 but it will look better than a 169. The one time 169 implies that your real score is 166-172 but if you take it again and score a 171 then though those points are both within your original score band it is a bit asymmetrical and a score band of 167-173 sounds more plausible.

Technically speaking, locally I think a point is worth the same in either direction (so the detriment of a retake of one point lower is equal to the benefit of one point higher) so if you think the probability of increasing your score is greater than the probability of a decrease in your score, then you should do it - that is, if you are not risk averse.

Retaking and gaining one point may not help much, but I don't see how it can hurt. Also, in my mind (though I have no clue as to the adcoms opinion on this) a retake implies that your practice tests were better than your real exam. Talk is cheap and everyone can say that their PT scores were higher but a retake puts your money where your mouth is. If I were an adcom and someone retook and scored the same or higher I would still give them the benefit of the doubt... but that's just me.


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