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Forum locked This topic is locked, you cannot edit posts or make further replies.  [ 11 posts ] 
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 Post subject: Reporting non-criminal violations in New York
PostPosted: Wed Dec 30, 2009 11:52 pm 

Joined: Wed Dec 30, 2009 10:00 pm
Archived Posts: 2
I would really appreciate advice on this, particularly from anyone who's lived in New York.

A little while ago I got a citation for drinking in public in New York City, which is considered a violation under New York state law, but explicitly not a crime. I plead guilty. As many of you may know, in New York it is made very clear that only misdemeanors and felonies are crimes, while "violations" are in a separate category and do not establish or get reported on a criminal record. This is presumably so that the NYPD can continue to give out tickets like lollipops and earn revenue without making criminals out of half the city's population. Again, the law in New York is very specific about this, so when law school apps asked about being charged or convicted of "crimes," I just answered no. I did disclose the incident to schools that asked about all "violations of the law."

At the time, this seemed like a no-brainer, as I did not want to say that I'd been convicted of a crime if I hadn't as defined by the area of jurisdiction. After reading horror stories about the character and fitness proceedings, though, I'm starting to wonder if I should have disclosed the information anyway. Even if it isn't a crime, I don't want the bar examiners to think I'm trying to be cute or cover something up. I've considered e-mailing an addendum to the schools that I didn't disclose the matter to, but I'm naturally afraid that I'll sink my application by trying to update it this late in the cycle. Has anyone been down this road before?


Last edited by someconcerns on Thu Dec 31, 2009 12:14 am, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Reporting non-criminal violations in New York
PostPosted: Wed Dec 30, 2009 11:55 pm 

Joined: Fri Dec 25, 2009 2:20 pm
Archived Posts: 93
If you think this is something that would sink your application then you're doubly at fault for witholding it. Do you think it's that severe? Just to be on the safe side, I would forward the addendum. I think that shows good character.


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 Post subject: Re: Reporting non-criminal violations in New York
PostPosted: Wed Dec 30, 2009 11:57 pm 

Joined: Wed Dec 30, 2009 10:00 pm
Archived Posts: 2
lawoftheland wrote:
If you think this is something that would sink your application then you're doubly at fault for witholding it. Do you think it's that severe?


I don't think the matter itself is that severe. I'm just afraid they won't appreciate some kind of "I didn't think I had to report it but I changed my mind" e-mail, especially at this stage in the cycle.

If I do forward the addendum, how should I explain my reasons for not including it earlier?


Last edited by someconcerns on Thu Dec 31, 2009 12:00 am, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Reporting non-criminal violations in New York
PostPosted: Wed Dec 30, 2009 11:58 pm 

Joined: Tue Dec 02, 2008 3:23 am
Archived Posts: 2237
No, a code violation is a code violation, not a crime. You're fine.


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 Post subject: Re: Reporting non-criminal violations in New York
PostPosted: Thu Dec 31, 2009 12:03 am 

Joined: Sun Jul 19, 2009 11:54 pm
Archived Posts: 19
a code violation is a crime!

if you already applied to schools and LIED on your applications they will kick you out or even arrest you -- watch out for campus police

good luck!


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 Post subject: Re: Reporting non-criminal violations in New York
PostPosted: Thu Dec 31, 2009 12:17 am 

Joined: Tue Dec 02, 2008 3:23 am
Archived Posts: 2237
harvardgurl4eva wrote:
a code violation is a crime!

if you already applied to schools and LIED on your applications they will kick you out or even arrest you -- watch out for campus police

good luck!

What the fuck are you talking about?


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 Post subject: Re: Reporting non-criminal violations in New York
PostPosted: Thu Dec 31, 2009 12:26 am 

Joined: Sun Jul 19, 2009 11:54 pm
Archived Posts: 19
Renzo wrote:
harvardgurl4eva wrote:
a code violation is a crime!

if you already applied to schools and LIED on your applications they will kick you out or even arrest you -- watch out for campus police

good luck!

What the fuck are you talking about?


first, your uncouth language won't be tolerated. that's why the response ends at first.


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 Post subject: Re: Reporting non-criminal violations in New York
PostPosted: Thu Dec 31, 2009 1:14 am 

Joined: Mon Sep 29, 2008 9:50 am
Archived Posts: 210
someconcerns wrote:
I would really appreciate advice on this, particularly from anyone who's lived in New York.

A little while ago I got a citation for drinking in public in New York City, which is considered a violation under New York state law, but explicitly not a crime. I plead guilty. As many of you may know, in New York it is made very clear that only misdemeanors and felonies are crimes, while "violations" are in a separate category and do not establish or get reported on a criminal record. This is presumably so that the NYPD can continue to give out tickets like lollipops and earn revenue without making criminals out of half the city's population. Again, the law in New York is very specific about this, so when law school apps asked about being charged or convicted of "crimes," I just answered no. I did disclose the incident to schools that asked about all "violations of the law."

At the time, this seemed like a no-brainer, as I did not want to say that I'd been convicted of a crime if I hadn't as defined by the area of jurisdiction. After reading horror stories about the character and fitness proceedings, though, I'm starting to wonder if I should have disclosed the information anyway. Even if it isn't a crime, I don't want the bar examiners to think I'm trying to be cute or cover something up. I've considered e-mailing an addendum to the schools that I didn't disclose the matter to, but I'm naturally afraid that I'll sink my application by trying to update it this late in the cycle. Has anyone been down this road before?


You should update all your applications . . . no one cares about a violation . . . but everyone cares about failure to disclose

A suggestion for other applicants - here's the RULE -> DISCLOSE, DISCLOSE, DISCLOSE

as other UVA folks can attest, the dean of admissions on the first day of orientation told anyone who failed to disclose to immediately meet with him to make the disclosure to prevent issues from popping up with the C&F


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 Post subject: Re: Reporting non-criminal violations in New York
PostPosted: Thu Dec 31, 2009 1:16 am 

Joined: Tue Dec 02, 2008 3:23 am
Archived Posts: 2237
vamedic03 wrote:
someconcerns wrote:
I would really appreciate advice on this, particularly from anyone who's lived in New York.

A little while ago I got a citation for drinking in public in New York City, which is considered a violation under New York state law, but explicitly not a crime. I plead guilty. As many of you may know, in New York it is made very clear that only misdemeanors and felonies are crimes, while "violations" are in a separate category and do not establish or get reported on a criminal record. This is presumably so that the NYPD can continue to give out tickets like lollipops and earn revenue without making criminals out of half the city's population. Again, the law in New York is very specific about this, so when law school apps asked about being charged or convicted of "crimes," I just answered no. I did disclose the incident to schools that asked about all "violations of the law."

At the time, this seemed like a no-brainer, as I did not want to say that I'd been convicted of a crime if I hadn't as defined by the area of jurisdiction. After reading horror stories about the character and fitness proceedings, though, I'm starting to wonder if I should have disclosed the information anyway. Even if it isn't a crime, I don't want the bar examiners to think I'm trying to be cute or cover something up. I've considered e-mailing an addendum to the schools that I didn't disclose the matter to, but I'm naturally afraid that I'll sink my application by trying to update it this late in the cycle. Has anyone been down this road before?


You should update all your applications . . . no one cares about a violation . . . but everyone cares about failure to disclose

A suggestion for other applicants - here's the RULE -> DISCLOSE, DISCLOSE, DISCLOSE

as other UVA folks can attest, the dean of admissions on the first day of orientation told anyone who failed to disclose to immediately meet with him to make the disclosure to prevent issues from popping up with the C&F

I still disagree. Unless it asks about code violations, you do not have to report it, and in fact the schools do not want you to (why would they want to wade through a list of every parking ticket, dog-leash violation, etc. everyone has ever received?).


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 Post subject: Re: Reporting non-criminal violations in New York
PostPosted: Thu Dec 31, 2009 1:30 am 

Joined: Fri Jul 10, 2009 9:46 am
Archived Posts: 53
if you are in doubt, which it seems you are, you should disclose.

if you were never in doubt, then this would not have been an issue. all applications ask you to err on the side of caution and suggest that you choose to disclose rather than withhold if there is any doubt or confusion.

having to disclose something sucks; i can attest to it. but at least you know that they aren't going to find out later and rescind your offer for misrepresenting yourself on your application. and hey, if that didn't happen, there's bar c&f to think about. they don't care as much about what they find as much as they care about you having been open about it.

for what it's worth, i am also someone that has also had to go through an extensive background check for government clearance to obtain a position of public trust. being honest and as forthcoming as possible is very much appreciated when it comes to c&f.


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 Post subject: Re: Reporting non-criminal violations in New York
PostPosted: Thu Dec 31, 2009 7:27 pm 

Joined: Mon Sep 29, 2008 9:50 am
Archived Posts: 210
Renzo wrote:
vamedic03 wrote:
someconcerns wrote:
I would really appreciate advice on this, particularly from anyone who's lived in New York.

A little while ago I got a citation for drinking in public in New York City, which is considered a violation under New York state law, but explicitly not a crime. I plead guilty. As many of you may know, in New York it is made very clear that only misdemeanors and felonies are crimes, while "violations" are in a separate category and do not establish or get reported on a criminal record. This is presumably so that the NYPD can continue to give out tickets like lollipops and earn revenue without making criminals out of half the city's population. Again, the law in New York is very specific about this, so when law school apps asked about being charged or convicted of "crimes," I just answered no. I did disclose the incident to schools that asked about all "violations of the law."

At the time, this seemed like a no-brainer, as I did not want to say that I'd been convicted of a crime if I hadn't as defined by the area of jurisdiction. After reading horror stories about the character and fitness proceedings, though, I'm starting to wonder if I should have disclosed the information anyway. Even if it isn't a crime, I don't want the bar examiners to think I'm trying to be cute or cover something up. I've considered e-mailing an addendum to the schools that I didn't disclose the matter to, but I'm naturally afraid that I'll sink my application by trying to update it this late in the cycle. Has anyone been down this road before?


You should update all your applications . . . no one cares about a violation . . . but everyone cares about failure to disclose

A suggestion for other applicants - here's the RULE -> DISCLOSE, DISCLOSE, DISCLOSE

as other UVA folks can attest, the dean of admissions on the first day of orientation told anyone who failed to disclose to immediately meet with him to make the disclosure to prevent issues from popping up with the C&F

I still disagree. Unless it asks about code violations, you do not have to report it, and in fact the schools do not want you to (why would they want to wade through a list of every parking ticket, dog-leash violation, etc. everyone has ever received?).


Its a risk benefit thing: the risk of not disclosing by far outweighs any benefit you might get from not disclosing. Plus, the only way to be sure they don't want to know is by asking, and I'm sure they would rather you simply do a 1 sentence disclosure that covers everyone's ass than have to deal with someone asking.

The school is less concerned with the violation than simply having the record of it.


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