Bribery, assassinations, etc.

The only truly national schools are H and Y though several others provide reasonably portable degrees. I attend U of C and can feel the disadvantage of not living in the area where I planning on living already, regardless of the school's T6 status.

Yeah I've gotten that vibe from researching the past few months. It really seems that unless you are talking about Harvard or Yale the region of the school really does matter; when choosing in the top 14 I really think the region matters more than the rank. It may make sense to go to Michigan over GWU for working in DC, but when choosing between Northwestern and NYU for Chicago you should just go with NU. That's part of what helped me pick a school to ED to and not feel like I should shoot for a "higher" school, unless by higher you mean Harvard or Yale.





LOL that's some hardcore NYU trolling! You do know that UVA has had a higher lawyer/judge assessment score for years now than NYU right? Sorry man but NYU and UVA are equivalent schools outside of NYC. You've been focusing way too much on US News and TLS fever.



FIXED

Sorry but the only schools that non NYC firms will go deeper into than UVA are HYS and CC. Firms outside of NYC view NYU just like they do Michigan, UVA, or Boalt. I'm sorry but NYU is to NYC what Boalt is to Cali: extremely respected in it's home market and stronger than most other schools in that market, but equivalent to the other top 10 schools outside of it. If a NYU student is taking on a UVA one for a job outside of NYC they are going to go with the applicant with higher grades or the one they like better as an individual. The school isn't going to determine it. Now if a UVA grad is taking on a Harvard grad he's going to lose barring much more impressive grades, LR, moot court etc.

The truth is that Harvard and Yale seem to be the only schools that dominate any and everywhere. As time has gone on I've realized that even Stanford doesn't quite do that.

+1

NYU and UVA may be equivalent schools outside of NYC, I may believe that (though I'm curious how they would compare in California), but that also ignores the fact that NYC is the biggest legal market.

The fact that it's the biggest doesn't really mean anything. Especially when it's not the most selective, and a lot of UVA students are gunning for the most selective market: DC. I'm not saying that UVA out places NYU, it just places as well (so do Michigan and Boalt).

You know too much.

::scribbles down name::

Do you mind sharing what market you're trying to break into that is giving you trouble? (I'm attending Chicago this fall so I'm curious, I'm also interested to know how they are faring in Chicago, since I want to stay)

Just to give you some help, I've been told that if you attend a top 14 and have ties to an area you should be able to go to said area without much trouble. So for us we should have no trouble coming back to the Atlanta area if we want to. I don't know about other markets though.

The top five percent??? So this hypothetical firm is like what, Wachtell? Cravath? I think you're taking this ITE thing a little rough.

Why don't we argue about how totally fucked the top 2% of Harvard is competing against the top 2% at Yale for those JP Stevens clerkships?

I want either East or West Coast and have no ties to either - I'm from another country and have lived in Midwest ever since I relocated to US. It isn't so much that I foresee not being able to get out of Midwest as it is the fact that I'd like to plant some roots in the area where I'm interested in living this summer - and paid positions are damn hard to come by. That in turn is practically rendering my plan impossible (relocation costs a lot and funding is pretty limited - seems wasteful to use it to relocate if I can swing an internship in the area where I already live).

Cali is apparently impossible to break into sans ties; NYC not so much, but ITE even NYC firms have been asking about ties. And I've got none. And I somehow think that that just wouldn't matter quite as much if I were coming from H or Y.

Had I gotten into Berkeley, I'd definitely have gone there over Chicago for location alone. My words of wisdom: go to school in the area where you'd like to stay, if possible. NU> NYU if you want Chicago (unless you already have ties to Chi, and even then I'd give it a good, hard look.)

Edited to add that U of C is the perfect choice if you're looking to stay in the city. It seems like that's what you want, so have no worries - you will be fine.

Thanks for your reply, good luck getting what you want on the coasts.

The fact that I know a Harvard 3L who couldn't land a job in San Diego (or LA, but he didn't try as hard for it), plus the existence of Eugene Action, has made it clear to me that going to even Harvard has its disadvantages based purely on location. At least, it doesn't overcome all obstacles to entering insular markets just based on its name alone. I'm slowly but surely coming to the conclusion that only Yale and probably Stanford can deliver a guarantee of a good job in So-Cal.

There is always going to be some advantage to being local. In addition to networking opportunities and ease of interviewing casually, the OCI numbers on LSN show about 200 Cali firms interviewing at Berkeley and 150 interviewing at Harvard. We all have the sense that you are better off at Harvard, but there is also a clear trade-off perceivable just in the OCI numbers, insofar as Berkeley students potentially have access to at least 50 Cali firms that don't even fly to Harvard. The H3L I know, although he's got something pretty good in Texas, is sitting there wondering if he would have been better off at UCLA or Berkeley, or even USD, just because of access.

This is wrong. I've split my life in the Northeast (NYC) and California (Bay Area). In both locations, Stanford and Duke are WAY WAY WAY more popular than Vandy. The only region I can see Vandy competing with Duke and Stanford in is the South.

Stanford's prestige in the south is much much lower than it is in the rest of the country. Most southern people don't think it is even remotely close to Harvard and Yale in prestige. Hell most even see Duke as being stronger than Stanford.

Okay, but that wasn't my point. My point was that Stanford and Duke are WAY bigger names than Vanderbilt in all the population-dense areas of the country. I think the only region where Vandy comes close to the other 2 is the South, which has fewer people than any other region.

Luckily I don't plan to go anywhere near the South ever again in my life. Diversity/tolerance/lack of humidity/Democrats/economic and educational success FTW.

Also, nowhere in my post did I mention Harvard OR Yale, nor did I mention prestige. You're trying to be a lawyer?!

ignorant elitist internet-screaming match. YES.

Dresden Doll: all you have to do is be willing to take a little risk and move out to California when you graduate. Take a few months, pass the bar, and start looking. Yes, you're probably right that it would be hard to get a job in Cali sitting in Chicago... And yes, you probably won't have a job in Cali at graduation.

The problem is, I'll have tons of debt already. How could I afford it?

Dunno what I'll do. We'll see. Your suggestion does make sense, though.

I was making a general comparative statement statement about Stanford's lay prestige( how did you even miss that, you must not have read carefully), which you did mention in your statement....and you're trying to be a lawyer?

Eh luckily I don't plan on coming anywhere near NYC or Cali again. Way too intolerant of anyone who isn't into gay rights, peta, and very intolerant of religion. Also there's a lot of closet racists around those areas. At least in the south they have the balls to be up front with it and not hid behind being "anti affirmative action". Good weather, space, people who mind their own business, and houses that actually have more than two bedrooms for 800K FTW.

If you go by which states were part of the confederacy, the south is the most populous region. If you go by which states are clearly in the south [1], and by which states are clearly in the northeast [2], then the former still has several more million people, and is still either the most populous or second most populous region depending on whether you split the west up into the coast and the mountain region or combine them together.

[1] VA, WV, GA, NC, SC, AL, MI, AK, LA, KY, TN
[2] CT, MI, MA, NH, NJ, NY, PA, RI, VT, DE

It's mind boggling how many people on here don't realize this.

Good thing you don't have to start paying back your loans until six months after graduation...

You could also try to transfer to a law school in California...

Yup. And when the South rises again, DVE (Duke, Vanderbilt, Emory) will be the new HYS.

The only hold-up on this whole secession thing is that we have yet to find a manner of categorization that puts Alaska in the South. We need that to happen if we're going to have Sarah Palin be our president.

What?! The last time I checked, West Virginia (who cares?), Michigan (MI) and Alaska (AK) were not in the South. I guess you were trying to say Mississippi (MS) and Arkansas (AR).

Let's tabulate the electoral college votes in these regions. And I'm eliminating West Virginia from consideration. It is not in the South, nor has anyone in that whole state heard of any school other than Harvard or WVU (my mom is from West Virginia). I'm also adding Maine (ME) to the Northeast.

[1] VA, GA, NC, SC, AL, MS, AR, LA, KY, TN

13, 15, 15, 8, 9, 6, 6, 9, 8, 11 = 100

[2] CT, MI, MA, NH, NJ, NY, PA, RI, VT, DE, ME

7, 17, 12, 4, 15, 31, 21, 4, 3, 3, 4 = 121

So, you're wrong. Also, if we eliminate Michigan (MI) from the Northeast, it's still 104 which, last I checked, was more than 100 (albeit only barely).

Also you seriously need to brush up on your general knowledge / postal abbreviations.